AI Edits from Change How You Interact with Your Loved One
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[00:00:00] Most of us become overwhelmingly frustrated by our loved one's refusal or inability to stop their addictive behaviors. But have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, you might be causing your own frustration? Have you ever truly evaluated the way you're coming at their problem with their addiction?
I hear exasperated clients tell me every day that they've tried ~everything, they've tried absolutely ~everything, but they cannot get or keep their child, spouse, partner sober. No matter how many times Kim and I tell them that's not their job, that's just not possible, it's not theirs to manage or control, they just keep trying, maybe in different ways, but nonetheless toward the same goal: managing their loved one's addiction.
And this leaves them frustrated, angry, sad, lonely, and desperately wanting change. Our expectations are just not real, you guys. They are good efforts and not gonna [00:01:00] hurt anything, and maybe even bring a little bit more harmony to the home. But they will not, in and of themselves, deliver sobriety or get someone to go to treatment.
But people hope they will. They believe they will, and they may have been told that they will, but they won't. These expectations include things like believing that changing my tone of voice will stop their addiction, counting on not being the bad guy will make them stop. Most people take this to the extreme and won't even have a boundary or hold a boundary because that would make them the bad guy.
They end up, for the most part, getting walked all over, and there's a difference between being the bad guy and being dragged into the bad guy, but people don't even wanna hear that distinction. ~They just wanna be not the bad guy at all so that their loved one will stop ~Another common expectation is that thinking if you don't share information about how much you hate the addiction and what they're doing, that they'll just have an epiphany and stop using, or that [00:02:00] giving that information updates from yourself, which might include something like "I don't know how much longer I'm willing to live like this," or, "I'm reaching my limit as to the amount of time I want to spend my life in this disease," they believe that's wrong, because by doing so might start a fight and then cause their loved one to use.
And here's a side note, guys. There is not, in any truth, anything that you can say or do that can cause someone to use drugs or alcohol. That's just false. They might gaslight you into believing that you're responsible, but there is nothing you can do to cause someone to use. ~I guess if you handed them a joint and said, "Smoke this or I'll hurt you", that might cause that, but that's not what we're talking about.~
So that flip that we hear from addiction, that's just what I call addiction smack talk. A fourth thing is buying into if we don't make them do things they don't wanna do, contribute around the house or go to work or school, that they won't have an excuse to use and that they won't, so that we'll force them to do these [00:03:00] things.
Or believing if we set up things, I hear this constantly, for them to do so they're busy and feel better about themselves, go work out, get a job, join activities, spend time with their friends who don't drink, that the parents or spouses are setting up. If you have them jobs to do around the house, pay them to work for us so they get a sense of purpose.
None of those things work either. We just drive ourselves crazy with setting it all up and managing it and then being frustrated when they don't do it or it doesn't result in what we want it to. Thinking that punishing or restricting or cutting them off access from us physically, sleeping in another room, or taking things away from them like the internet so that they'll feel the re- repercussions and that will lead to them to stop using.
Talking to them endlessly about how you feel, about what their addiction is doing to them, to the family, to their lives, trying to explain how addiction works in the brain so that the logic will appeal to their intelligence and they'll stop. [00:04:00] I literally get four times a week, someone says, "Could you just see my son and have...
explain to him the neurobiology of the brain like you just said it to me?" No, I ca- I can, but it's not gonna make them stop, because the part of the brain that would hear that, that would care about, is the frontal lobe, but the survival part of the brain is running the show, and it overrides that. So this is not a question of logic they also want people like, "Can, can't you just see them?"
~Or, "Can't Amber just see them?" Or, "Can't Kim just see them and talk to them, ta- tell them about this, tell them that they need to go to treatment?" ~No, it doesn't work like that. And the last one that I'm just gonna go into super briefly here today is so many family members walk on eggshells constantly in every aspect of their daily life to avoid upsetting their loved one who's using.
And so these expectations, plus a bunch that I haven't even mentioned, that follow the same footprints of thinking, they, these force us to continue to live a life that revolves around the maypole of addiction because we're focusing on the wrong thing, [00:05:00] and this leaves us so frustrated with them, and then we just try another worthless effort.
And so we're just exhausting ourselves with all these what ifs," or, "This may be this," or, "There's a magic bullet somewhere," or, "This magical thinking I'm sure will be true to come, turn out to be true." And it's just not, so we're exhausting ourselves, and that frustrates us, and we're putting it on them.
The truth is, we should be looking at ourselves, and instead of being frustrated that we aren't facilitating change, recognizing that we're just going at it backward. What we need to do instead is analyze what we can do to change to support the opposite of the eight examples I mentioned just a second ago.
This starts with chasing our peace to the degree that we can. Stop restricting their drinking, as in you can't drink around me or the children, setting limits as to how much or where they can use, you can only smoke in the garage, or [00:06:00] trying to set up rules or, of engagement in general for their addiction.
They won't honor these things, you guys, and you'll only feel further frustrated now because they're breaking the rule. And they probably will agree to them initially because, A, they're either trying to shut you up, or very commonly, they are believing in that moment that they could comply, and they maybe mean that they will comply, but the addiction will r- come up with a reason to rationalize and validate not complying, just this once, or because it's raining, or because you're Using the vacuum.
You know how addiction lives on these stupid little things. ~If you it just doesn't matter. ~If you could manage, if they could manage their addiction like you want them to with these rules, you wouldn't be hyper-fixated on it, and we probably wouldn't even know who you are. They can't. That's the problem.
We set up these expectations that they'll manage it, that they'll do it wisely, they'll do it in the right place and the right time to the right amount, and they just can't. [00:07:00] But that doesn't mean that you ignore your needs. You just have to change from managing their behavior to managing your responses.
So in reference to the above eight, the I'm sleeping in a separate bedroom caveat turns into from, because I'm punishing you and I think that as I punish you, you'll stop drinking, it turns into because I want a good night's sleep. ~That's a healthy... ~That's perfectly fine. You're going to get your good night's sleep, and when you wake up, you won't be frustrated because you didn't say, "I'm gonna sleep in there," and then tomorrow you won't drink, in your mind.
~So you're gonna be less frustrated. ~So I think that's a really important example. It just leads that they're not res- you're frustrated 'cause they aren't responding in the way that you want them to. Not doing things like, let's say, not going to bridge club because you think you can and should babysit your partner and monitor and manage their drinking, and that will cause them to cut back or stop, and then they [00:08:00] will eventually just realize that their life is better without drinking.
No. They will just sneak drink or brazenly drink in front of you despite your presence, which leaves you frustrated and angry because you gave up something you love. ~Do you hear the flip on this? ~It is okay to have the thing. It is not okay as in, I'm not gonna sleep with you, I'm gonna turn the internet off at midnight, not to punish you so that you'll realize you have a problem, but because I don't wanna hear your video games all night long, I need to sleep.
That, we can set these boundaries if we're setting them for us, which is what a boundary is. It is, "I'm no longer willing to do, tolerate, participate in." We can set these boundaries, but the win of the boundary is how you feel, not the result you get from other people. ~And that distinction is m- misunderstood misinterpreted and not utilized very well very often by many people.~
~Let's go over that again. ~You can have any of these boundaries, but it is so that you feel rested, peaceful, happy, [00:09:00] whatever, not so that they will learn something or change or become different because of that. Boundaries are only about you, never about them. Okay? When I don't go out on Friday nights to protect my mental health and my peace it's not so that I can punish my friends ~or my friends will learn not to ask me out on Friday, ~or they'll learn that they shouldn't have parties without Campbell.
~It's not that. ~It's so that I feel good. ~So you can decide not to go to bridge 'cause you'd rather be, or not because you... ~You can flip that and say I'm not gonna go to bridge because I don't really want to be around a bunch of people who are gonna ask me, like, how my loved one is, or give me their advice," and choose instead to go for a long walk or shop or see a movie which will leave you not exposed to people's prying questions or eyes, which you don't, aren't in the mood for, but it'll leave you conversely a little bit more charged and feeling better.
At least you've given yourself a brief reprieve from the problem at the very least. But again, this is for your benefit, not because you want [00:10:00] the person at home to learn that they have, that you will babysit them and that will limit their drinks Don't lecture or nag. It just frustrates you because you're now pissed off to zero avail, and your afternoon and evening is ruined because you're now in a bad mood because you lectured and talked to them, and then they either argued back, or they ignored you, or they shrank in front of you, or they got up and walked outside and did drugs in the shed, whatever's gonna happen.
Instead, just decide, "I'm gonna be neutral. I'm gonna say nothing at all," knowing that nothing I say is going to ~change their pattern. Nothing you say is gonna ~change their pattern. And you can channel that energy instead into your own thoughts or hobbies. You're going to get the same result, okay? You're gonna just feel less frustrated, and that's a huge component.
Focus instead on what you can manage and control. This includes your mood, your thoughts, your behavior, your responses, conversations that you [00:11:00] choose in which to engage, and how you spend your time and energy. All these things are more battery charging than draining, and will leave you far less frustrated and more emotionally balanced.
Your loved one will also, over time, change their narrative about themselves and their addiction, as in they won't be able to say I wasn't going to use, but mom just told me one more time how bad weed is for me." So in these things that happen, that's not true. He was going to use. He's just using the excuse, "I wasn't going to because mom's lecturing me."
And that's what addiction thrives on, is this being the victim, putting shame on other things, like now it's bad mom, right? Not bad me. I'm only smoking because mom is out of line. So remember that's their mentality, is they're gonna flip. So as we do all these things, those top eight things and all the other ones, we are actually [00:12:00] giving them fodder for using, because we are babysitting, lecturing, hovering, all the things we talked about.
Instead, recognize that if I don't do these things and I am relatively pleasant or just not there, minding my own business, watching a movie without worrying that he's holding his fifth tequila, is then eventually they are going to be able- To look in the mirror and see, "Yep, this is on me." If we stop handing the victim card to them to play, they eventually will look in that mirror and say, no, that fifth tequila was on you. ~She was... ~She didn't say a word. She didn't have a look on her face. She didn't roll her eyes. She didn't do a ding-gum thing." And that's what we want, okay? That's the only way that eventually can lead the- them to their own conclusion that their life is unmanageable, and then, and only then, is there a possibility for [00:13:00] change.
So by you changing how you interact with them, you at least open the door to possibility for them to come to the above conclusion. And meanwhile, you will be far less frustrated. You will be far less angry, exhausted Sad. You're just like, "I'm not expending a bunch of energy into a vortex, into a vacuum.
I'm putting that energy into myself that's gonna have, or my other children, or my job, or my friends, or whatever, but that's gonna yield results." Putting this frustration into our l- loved one with addiction is not going to get a result, you guys. It's just not. So remember that as you keep trying these things and just filter this through.
Is this got a good ROI? It- is it, doing this in the past led to anything that's been fruitful or fruitful that stuck, or fruitful [00:14:00] that was sustainable? Maybe once or twice it'll be fruitful in the moment, but we're looking for sustainable change that leads them to the conclusion their life is unmanageable, hence I either need to stop my substance, or if I try to stop and can't, get help for treatment.
~All right, you guys, if this video resonates with you, then our membership is probably a good idea for you, because we share thoughts and how to look at addiction differently and your role in it in our live calls, which are twice a week, as well as within the teaching content available to you guys, to all members, whenever you want or need it.~
~Just, it's just in there for you. ~Conversely, if you can't imagine having or holding a boundary, but are really struggling with your loved one's ongoing addiction patterns and you can't, figure out how to get it to stop, then our course Beyond Boundaries is probably the place to start. This way you can learn how to accept, alter your strengths and abilities, and learn how to live with a degree of knowledge more peacefully.
~Links to both of those are in the, for the membership and the Beyond Boundaries course are in the description block on this video's, description. ~I hope, I really do hope this speaks to some or all of you, and that you guys can take the appropriate steps to feel more empowered. Addiction is mostly a waiting game, unfortunately, and no one tells us that as we start playing the game.
Waiting for them to realize their lives are out of control. Waiting for us to see when and if I get sick and tired of being sick and [00:15:00] tired. It's not a short game, but it's also not a game of creating rules or lecturing or punishing or rewarding through incentives. Once you get this, and you really understand that concept, is you can change your focus, and then you can feel far less frustrated and resentful, ~and that may be all you get for the short period or forever.~
Either way is the best choice for you. So ~if you f- ~if you feel like this has been helpful, absolutely join the membership or sign up for Beyond Boundaries and take it to the next degree so that you can really benefit. All right, that's that for that topic. I will open up to questions And see what's going on.
All right How do I interact with my alcoholic husband going through 90 days online sober coaching program but keeps lying to me and to his coach about his alcohol usage when he slips? You could go at it a couple ways. I think I would say in the right moment, in the right tone, quietly, [00:16:00] not angrily, not blaming, but, "I'm noticing that you're slipping," which I get, it's a difficult disease to beat, "but if you're not truthful with your coach, I'm curious as to why you signed up for it.
Are you trying to placate me, placate yourself? Because this person is there to help you. You are not the only person in the entire world who's slipping during this program or any other recovery program. So I'm just curious." Or use the empowerment triangle. "I know you've spent a lot of money, and you're investing a lot of time, and I know that's gotta be something that's difficult for you, and I would not wanna be in the same position.
I'm just wondering if you wanna use it, use your money and your time more wisely by being honest." Something like that. But I would point it out. I wouldn't just quietly sit there and let them lie to you and to them. Again, you don't have to yell, blame, nag, fight. You just have to give this up- information update, which is, "I've [00:17:00] noticed that."
That's not accusatory. You've noticed. And then float it out there as, "I'm wondering if you're getting the most bang for your buck. I'm wondering why you are even taking this course." And let them think about it, and then get out and let them think. Don't go back and nag at it. ~Don't say, "You're still doing it."~
You've already planted the seed. They may go through the whole 90-day program and continue doing it, but your seed is in there, and I would let it just sit.
All right. "I know it depends on the person and the situation, but generally how often do you see a person obtain long-term sobriety after their first day in rehab?" What a great question, Kaylin. ~I don't, ~I'm not gonna tell you how often, but I'm gonna tell you what the formula is for that to work 100% of the people who go to treatment, who do what they are told to do, what is recommended by professionals, sponsors, peers, if the person and the family, big and, both do [00:18:00] what they are being told to do by someone knowledgeable in the field who truly understands addiction, those people almost always get and stay sober.
That is rare though, because most people don't wanna do what they're being suggested or told to do, and frankly, most families don't. And that's, what I see a lot is the families will, "Yeah, but me" or, "You don't understand" or, "We can't do that" or, "He won't like that." And so they, once you get into the yeah, but club or the I'm special, I don't need that club, then you're out of the 100% club.
So that's the fact is if everybody follows exactly what they're told to do, they'll nail it
All right, what are we supposed to say or do the morning after when they said horrendously hurtful things when they were drinking the night before? "Act like nothing happened. He's always acting like nothing happened." I would not act like nothing's happened. You're just propagating the problem. [00:19:00] I don't think I would
I would, again, pick my time, pick my tone, and I would say I'm gonna guess that you don't remember how last night went, but I can just tell you it was incredibly hard. It was incredibly hurtful, and I know that you when you're sober don't say those hurtful things, which makes it even probably worse for you.
But it was pretty bad for me, and ~I can- ~I can't tell you how much longer I am willing to endure those kind of evenings. Just wanted to let you know that I noted it, ~and it is in the hopper, ~and I don't know how many other ones that I note and put in the hopper need to go in there before I decide I don't wanna be in this relationship."
I think if you ignore it, he'll just keep doing it because it doesn't matter. They don't remember it 90% of the time. ~They get to the ... ~By the time you're seeing us or on this channel, your person's probably drinking to blackout, and blackout isn't I forgot. Blackout is the left and the right brains are not talking to each other.
The memory isn't formed. [00:20:00] So there's a difference between having your memory jogged and going, "Oh, yeah, crap, I did do that," versus, "I don't know what you're talking about." So most of the time they aren't gonna remember what you're talking about, so you have to say it in general terms. I wouldn't repeat unless you want to.
I wouldn't repeat, "And you called me this, and you called me this, and you called me this," 'cause that's just gonna hurt your feelings more and more e- even coming out of your own mouth. But really hurtful. ~Some people will tape, videotape their loved one. ~I'm not a big fan of that. I feel like that's creating shame, more shame than they already have.
And so in the way I said it, I think you can do it so that there isn't shame, 'cause you're keeping the emphasis on I'm not sure how long I can tolerate that versus and then you, and you're a d- terrible husband, a terrible spouse. I'm not dealing with you. You're
You gotta go at it- Not emotionally from your perspective. And that kind of backs up the topic of today, which is you hold your boundaries [00:21:00] versus pointing out what they're doing, and that leaves you less frustrated
Yeah, I can talk about motivational interview. ~I'm not the best on m- motivational interviewing. ~Motivational interviewing is when you let them lead the conversation. Let's just pretend that Bree said, "I think I'm gonna eat nothing but Cheese and crackers for lunch for the next six months.
Oh, so you're gonna eat cheese and crackers for six months? Yeah, absolutely. Wow that's a lot of cheese and crackers, but you do like lots of cheeses, and you like different crackers, so that might work for you. W- what's your thinking behind that? Why, what, why would you wanna do that? Because you wanna feel more close to your Italian roots.
Oh, so cheese and crackers makes you feel more Italian. Okay, that makes sense. I totally get it 'cause, Italians love their cheese and crackers. But don't they also love ricotta and fish? Yeah, they do. ~I don't know. ~Cheese and crackers might be the way to go. And so you're not saying, "You're a moron.
This is the stupidest thing I've [00:22:00] ever heard of," but you're going with it. You're maybe tossing out a couple things that, to remind them there's other things that could be part of that formula, but ~you're not saying you're being dumb bec- if you don't eat fish, if you don't eat pasta, if you don't eat red sau-" ~You're not saying that.
You're just saying you do love a good fish. Have you thought about that?" And then they can either think, "No, I'm sticking with the cheese and crackers," or, "Oh, I could add fish." But you haven't said anything other than agreeing with and nudging them gently. That's probably not how anyone who studies motivational interviewing would describe it, but that's how I describe it.
You d- you're rolling with resistance, okay? That's the gist of it. You're not pointing out the flaws in their system. You're just rolling with it. Oh, here's a really better example. So I used to see this kid, who's now sober, thank God, but he was just a hot mess. But he asked me to stay after group one night and help him with his budget.
He made $1,800 a month, and he wanted to move out from his parents' house. I said, "All right. Great. We got 1,800 bucks. That's solid. We can work with this." [00:23:00] "All right. I found a place that I can rent for $800." I'm like, "That's good. All right, $800. So that leaves you $1,000." And utilities, I don't have to put any deposits down.
~It's $42." I'm gonna stick with you. ~It's $50 a month. Okay, so you got 1,750. All right. What are your other line items?" Gas, insurance, food. Food, but I don't need to eat that much." I'm like, "What about fun? Y- you gotta have some fun, right? You're a 19-year-old. We gotta put a line on there for fun."
~"Totally." ~So we get down. I'm like you got $300 left. You can totally make this happen." He goes hang on. We forgot my weed. We forgot my weed budget." I said, "Oh, my bad. How much is your weed budget?" He said it's like $500 a month." I said, "Okay. All right, $500. So we need to find another 200."
~"Yeah. I don't need to drive all that much. I can take some out of that and some out of the food." "Great." I'm like, "You're solid. You're... Here we go." ~The more I think about it, I'm not sure-" We, I think I'm gonna need to go to 800 for the weed. This ensues for another 30 minutes until he finally says, "To be honest, my weed budget's really closer to 1,500.
I think I should just [00:24:00] buy a tent and live in my parents' backyard." I said, "Sounds like a plan." That's a good example of motivational interviewing. At zero point did I say, "Dude, what are you even thinking about? Where are you gonna get a tent? Are your parents gonna let..." I didn't say any of that. I just kept going, "Oh, of course, we need more weed budget."
And, obviously he leaves thinking he's got this great plan for success. ~He's gonna spend $1,500 a month on weed with a tent in his parents' backyard. ~I see him two weeks later, and I said, "How's the tent?" He said it didn't work out very well 'cause it was really raining, so I'm living with a friend, and I've cut my weed budget down to 1,200."
I said, "Can you handle that?" He goes, "It's rough, but I borrow some of the friend's pot a little bit every now and then, so I think it's gonna work." Eventually, he goes to treatment. ~Long story, dangerous story. ~He's sober and thriving. But had I said, "You're an idiot. This is no good," A, he would never have come to me with another issue, he would never have probably talked honestly with another adult or counselor, and he wouldn't have [00:25:00] realized himself that this was a mo- moronic plan.
So I think that's the thing is in motivational interview, they come to the conclusion by you, the way you interact with them, that what they're thinking or planning or doing is not the best option
~All right. ~My husband goes to ~many, goes ~many evenings with no drinks, and sometimes drinks a few and is fine, but he goes through phases of being off the rails, and when he drinks a lot makes bad decisions, driving emotional infidelity. Yeah, so to me this is a typical example of I know I have a problem, and when I drink too much bad things happen.
I'm not gonna give it up, but I'm gonna drink less, and I'm gonna manage it differently, and that won't happen again. And then they can successfully have that pattern two weeks maybe max-ish, maybe a little bit more, but then they're gonna say you've only had a couple drinks for, gosh, a couple weeks.
~You totally deserve a blowout. You totally deserve to go over to John's and gun down 10 bourbons." ~And so that's the true pattern that he's been [00:26:00] squelching. And so this is part of the bargaining, this is part of the denial, this is that long game I referred to at the beginning of this video, which is it's a long game of waiting, and you have to let him exhaust himself or you get exhausted and you decide you don't want to be in the relationship anymore.
But there's nothing you're gonna say that's gonna change that unless you used an information update like, "You do a really good job managing for a little bit, and then it just seems like you can't manage it anymore. That must be really frustrating to you. I'm just curious." So you've planted the seed that you noticed it, but you're not gonna nag, lecture, and that casual "just curious" is a defense mechanism deflator.
~Okay? I love a defense mechanism deflator, which I just made up. But ... ~And that's "You might be right. Just curious. I didn't think my thinking was straight." Like something like that, you just throw it out there after you've given them something to think about. You pull yourself out of the mix with humor or curiosity or humility so that they're left with a thought.
~But that's what that, that's an example of that is he just can't, he can't manage it.~
Addict is [00:27:00] paying bills and taking financial responsibility, but otherwise wants his kids to directly ask him to come home. The kids are hesitant. As his mom, I communicated, but he doesn't want to communicate with her, with me
First of all If he wants the kids to ask him directly, then he needs to be able to say to them, "Hey, I'm not giving a loan to you guys asked me to do that needs to be a direct line of communication between him and the children. Otherwise, you'll be getting on a drama triangle with you as the, in the children's eyes, the prosecutor, persecutor.
And I would just say that's up to you. I'm not gonna ask the children to do that because I know that they don't want to do that. But feel free to do and maybe I'll be surprised." That's how I would handle that. I would not be the mediator for that
All right. Are there any more questions? ~Going, twice. ~Okay. All right, guys. I hope this was helpful. ~I hope it was viable, and I hope it speaks to you guys, and we can help some of you in some way, some form. ~All right. Have a great week, and some will be here next week. I don't know who. Amber
