How to Tell if Your Addicted Loved One is Manipulating or Being Honest
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[00:00:00] Very frequently in our coaching sessions, I'm talking to family members and they're really struggling with. Is my loved one manipulating me? Do they really mean this? Are they really upset about certain situations? Do they mean it when they say they're really trying? Like, how do you tell the difference between manipulation, which we all know that people with addictions Will do and lying versus genuine heartfelt truthful statements and I know it can be difficult Especially when you're in the middle of it and you've been lied to over and over again You've been manipulated you get to the Point, you don't believe anything basically.
And so eventually it doesn't matter what they say. It doesn't matter what they do. It's whatever we'll see because it's just a normal protective mechanism. But there are ways to flesh out manipulative behaviors and. And I want to share some of that with you so you can actually know what you're looking for.
Last week, [00:01:00] we talked more about how to detect genuine behavior. If you haven't seen that one, that's another good video to go along with this one, but you don't have to have seen that first to make sense of this. So one of the ways, one of the easiest ways that I can tell that someone's probably being deceptive in some way is that the story doesn't line up.
Like it just doesn't, right? It just doesn't make sense. Like good common sense. So for example, you guys know, I like to listen to true crime and when I was getting ready for this video, I was listening to this true crime story about this guy who had an affair and then, murdered his pregnant wife.
I don't know why that's a common thing, but it is. And so the story was, he's like a basketball coach. He left school for the day. He went to the grocery store and then he was going to go back to basketball practice, but he stopped at his friend and other teacher's house and dropped the groceries off in their refrigerator.
And then was going to pick up the groceries on the way back home after basketball practice. And I thought to myself, Okay. [00:02:00] That's possible, but there's just something about that story. Like who does that and who does that with a female coworker, other teacher, it's I'm going to go get groceries and I'm going to come to your apartment and put my groceries in your fridge.
I'm going to go back to basketball practice. I'm going to come back and pick them up and then go home. That was his alibi in this. True crime story I was listening to and I don't know about you, but when I hear things like that It's just like little weird bells go off in my head and like you know It's like your sketch our radar happens when a story doesn't line up It's either not true or it's missing very important vital pieces And that's usually somebody leaving out something on purpose , to deceive you.
And a lot of people try to hide behind the I told the truth. And when they've not necessarily said something that's untrue, but they've left out really big chunks of the story that are obvious that, The person they're talking to would want to, or need to know that is purposeful deception. So in my mind, that kind of purposeful omission [00:03:00] definitely counts as deception.
It counts in my book as a lie. What about you? Does it count in your book as a lie? Technically they didn't say something untrue, but they led you to believe something that was untrue. And so either way it goes, I think that counts. People will hide behind that forever and they'll say I didn't really know that was important, but.
We all know when there's, when we're communicating with someone and there's important details, we know which ones are important, which ones aren't. Occasionally, we might not tell somebody something we didn't even know they want to know, but how does that happen? Not very often. Okay. So when we're leaving those parts out, You can tell because the story just doesn't line up.
The timeline doesn't line up or the reasoning doesn't line up. It just doesn't seem, it may be possible, but it doesn't seem plausible. And then, and you can, it gets even easier to discern this when you know the person well, because you know. How they react to things and what their daily habits are and for, to a large degree what they would and wouldn't do.
So when you get that funny feeling inside, you need to listen to [00:04:00] it. But then again, when you're the family member, you get so stressed out. It's there's this part of you that doesn't believe anything they say. And then there's this other part of you that wants to believe everything they say.
And so you're so Confused and then you just get completely mixed up and you usually ended up telling them that you don't believe them because you don't want Them to think that you're able to be manipulated and you're a fool that kind of thing But inside you're like maybe it is maybe that did happen.
Maybe that is true And it can get really complicated When you run into manipulation techniques like gaslighting like they're telling you They are Doing whatever they're doing because of something you're doing or that they didn't do it at all It's crazy because it's like literally it's like someone can be standing there like red handed like the saying like red handed Busted and be like, what are you talking about?
It didn't happen or you put that red there, And they throw it back on you and they're so good at it. It makes you question yourself and from the outside looking in [00:05:00] a situation like this, you might think to yourself like, oh my gosh, like, why does that person believe that? That's so ridiculous.
It's obvious. But by the time we get to this point in addictive relationships, there's been so much gaslighting. There's been so much lying and manipulation and emotional blackmail that your head is just swimming. And when you're in the middle of it, it's not easy to see as clearly. Cause you may have.
You may think to yourself, like, why would someone fall for that gaslighting, but it's easy when you're exhausted, you're tired, you're worn out, you're confused, you're discombobulated, all the things, and then the other reason that comes into play, I think that makes it very difficult to tell someone's telling the truth or not, is because in a lot of cases, the addicted person believes what they're saying.
And so it comes across as Feeling and seeming a lot more truthful. There is some kind of difference though between that kind of lie, which I would call more like self [00:06:00] deception than it is deception of the other person. And then like flat out, just trying to deceive the other person. When it comes to questions like what someone did, where they went, how much they spent, who was there, all those things like logistical, practical, black and white answer questions, and the story isn't lining up.
And you're not getting the truth. That's just a purposeful deception. That's like a lie that they purposely told you where it can get murky is when it comes into, when they're explaining their thinking behind what happened, their emotions behind what happened, their rationalizations, their justification, their excuses.
When you get into that territory of trying to understand whether someone's manipulating you or lying to you. A lot of times you got to realize that they're probably manipulating and lying to themselves. And I run into this all the time in coaching sessions because I can see that it's not so much that they're trying to lie to me.
It's just that they're trying to convince themselves of [00:07:00] something that is not quite true. And like I said, it usually less to do with logistics and black and white. Did you drink or you didn't drink, but more to do with why you drank. And sometimes maybe even like maybe how much of something you did, because it was how many gummy bears did you eat?
Oh, I might say, oh, just a few when it was like the whole bag. And I could just be lying because I don't want to tell you, but I could just be lying because I just want to tell myself it was just a few. Do you see the difference when it comes to intentions, emotions, motivations? That's where you can get in the gray area.
And you really notice that someone is deceiving themselves. Now, I know the title of this video is how to spot lying and how to spot manipulation, which we're talking about, but. You know what I really want you to get out of this video? I want you to get out of this video that I don't want you to worry about it too much.
The main thing here is you don't have to go to court, usually. You don't have to prove it. You don't have to collect the evidence and you don't have to make this person tell you the truth. And if you will let yourself off the hook [00:08:00] for always knowing for sure whether they're telling the truth and spotting every single little thing, you're going to feel a lot better.
Because think about it like this. What good does it do you? Do they ever really just admit to it? Not as long as they're an active addiction. They are not going to cop to it. Maybe when they get sober five years later, they'll be like, yeah, I lied to you that one time, but you're not going to get them.
Even if you have all the evidence in the world, you're not going to get them to agree to it. You're not going to feel any better. It's this sort of self delusion. We tell ourself that it's really about our ego. We get caught up in feeling bad about ourselves and guilty about ourselves feeling because we got duped or because We didn't see something going on for so long or because we believe some kind of ridiculous story And so because of that we get so hyper vigilant and we want to catch every little thing Because mostly we're trying to prove it to ourselves More than we're trying to prove to the other person we're trying to prove that we're not crazy that it is happening the you know You're just trying to make sense of [00:09:00] it and so you can get in this like police officer role, which isn't good for you and doesn't do you any good.
Do I worry about clients lying to me in session? Not really. Honestly, I expect there to be some degree of that and it doesn't, bother me and I don't think it means I'm a bad counselor and I don't take it purposely because I know when that's happening, it's probably because they feel embarrassed about the situation.
And so they just don't want to tell you the whole story. They may tell you have the story. They're not telling you the whole story because they're feeling embarrassed about it. And so if you're the family member of someone who has an addiction to drugs or alcohol, gambling, anything else, you got to understand that this isn't about You, I'm not saying it's not hurtful to you.
I'm not saying you should allow someone to treat you badly, but I'm saying it's not because they think you're an idiot. It's not because necessarily they're trying to treat you crappy. It's all this addictive behavior and thinking. So it's either they're lying to you because they're trying not to get [00:10:00] caught because they don't want to be in trouble.
It's they're lying to you because. They're trying to get away with something like right now or later today or in the future, or they're trying to manipulate you into being okay with something they've done or not done. And it's like when they're trying to either make you feel really bad for them, or when they're trying to make you feel guilty for something That's another indicator that, you're being manipulated, when you feel like you're being forced into something that you don't really want to do because you feel guilty, because you feel sorry for someone because of something like that.
And you have this resentment, but you also have this other guilt feeling that's. More than most likely a manipulative tactic on their point because they know what your buttons are. With the people close to us, we all know what their buttons are. So we know how to pitch a story or, tell an event in a way that's going to make the other person the most [00:11:00] agreeable to whatever the situation is.
So it's maybe they're trying to say why they need to leave treatment. This is a really common one. When people go to treatment, It usually happens in the first week or so, but they're calling home and they're saying, I'm done. I don't want to do this. Get me out of here. And typically the way they'll do that is they'll either play on your heartstrings by telling you like something like, the people in here are way worse than me.
And if you leave me in here, I'm probably just going to pick up other bad habits or, they're treating me badly in here or something that makes you feel like, oh my gosh, like I got to get them out of there. Or they tell you something like, this is really costing a lot. I can go to meetings for free.
Like I really don't need to be here. There's no sense in it. Though those are indicators that you're being manipulated. Another indicator is like, when you can tell that they're trying to keep. People separated like they're trying to keep you from talking to Their sister their cousin their friend you can tell it's like they're trying to almost not get let you get in the room [00:12:00] together sometimes they'll go to Bigger links, and they'll actually pitch you against each other because everybody in their life has a piece of the story.
And the last thing they want is for everybody to get together and start putting those puzzle pieces together because then the truth Of the big picture situation is going to be very clear. So they want to keep everybody apart a lot of times I will talk to spouses who are really mad at their in laws because they feel like their in laws aren't Helping and then other times I will talk to the parents of maybe an adult addict who are really mad at the spouse the addict spouse because they feel like like you're not supporting me.
You should watch amber's video She says it'd be nice to them and it's what are you doing? You're making my son drink or whatever And there's this There's these bad feelings and this sort of hostility. It's not always like real surface, but it's like underneath brewing kind of hostility and resentment and blame towards the other person.
And a lot of [00:13:00] that is happening because the addicted person is I'm telling these people one thing and this person something else and then not only that Not only is it like this person knows part of the truth and this person knows part of the truth but it's like they're telling like they may tell the parents like I just try to come home and like I was just going to take our son to soccer, but she like freaked out on me.
Like she lost her mind and she did all these things, but left out the part that last time you take the kid to soccer, you were drinking. And so then the parents get mad at the spouse. You've got all this splitting going on. And so if you're. Trying to help an addicted loved one and you're feeling very angry about how someone else is interacting with your addicted loved one, you got to realize that they're probably orchestrating that somehow and or that it's okay if you're still in the game but they've burned the bridge with someone else and someone else has decided okay i'm done i'm out of this i'm i don't care what happens it's [00:14:00] okay to let them do that and it's frustrating to you because you're like how could you give up on them but you don't you may not know the whole history there and sometimes the bridges get burned so if you find yourself getting upset with other people you About the situation how they're reacting or not reacting.
It's either because they really don't understand what's going on there. They really don't get it Or that they are being manipulated by the addicted person and that's why the hostility is happening. Other types of manipulation have to do with starting arguments because they know that they maybe don't want to stay in for the evening and they don't want to do the family event.
So they're going to start an argument so they can just get mad and get in a huff and run out the door and slam the door and be gone for the whole evening and blame it on because. You know they were just trying to cool down or they were just mad at you and actually all along they had a plan and they didn't want to stay and do what they maybe had already agreed to do.
So they're doing this fight starting. All of this stuff can make your head feel like it wants to explode. I [00:15:00] actually have a whole playlist on this channel about manipulation One of the one of the videos I talk about a particular book That really describes all these manipulation tactics like magic tricks and so they use this sort of metaphor of the magician and you know Like the disappearing acts and all the things and the the this The sleight of hand and the distraction moves, and it's helpful to think of it that way so you can understand oh, okay, this is what's happening here.
Like when you're watching a magician, but you know how they do what they do, then you can see through it. Then once you understand that about your addicted loved one, you can see through it too. But I'm telling you, don't get so caught up on Making sure you don't get lied to, right? All you have to do is keep your side of the street clean.
I promise you, if you just stand back and do nothing, the seeds that this person is sowing. will grow into something. Bad seeds and good seeds. The lies will surface. The manipulation will backfire. Like you don't have to force it out. [00:16:00] It will bring itself up. It will work itself through. And by not Convincing yourself that you have to catch them on everything and you have to call them on everything and you have to tell them You know, they're lying and all that kind of stuff It's easier to say all the bad guy role Because that's the thing that gets you crazy and makes you want to get in there and prove and argue with them and now You didn't even realize it, but you got manipulated in to play in the bag.
I roll again. So once you said it, let yourself off the hook on that life's going to be easier. You're going to get out of the bag. I roll and these things are actually going to surface a lot faster. Actually, what's going to happen is the person's going to start telling on themselves, like not even on accident, like on purpose, because.
They're actually going to feel bad about these things. When you step back and you stop trying to push it and find it and argue about it, then their natural sort of guilt and remorse and feeling bad, if they have it, like unless they're just antisocial and honestly, way less People are antisocial, narcissistic than you [00:17:00] think.
I've been doing this for a long time and I rarely run into that. Like very rare, very rarely. So if you just step back, those natural human emotions actually push up to the surface faster, making them want to change faster, making them want to at least be more honest or stop manipulating in that way, they can see the truth faster.
If you just, Get out of their viewpoint. Here's one. Nicole says question mother's day is coming up. Often holidays have been a trigger situation. I don't think I can do it this year. How can I still celebrate with others and not include him honestly or avoidance?
Is what you're asking like you're saying I get what you're saying like holidays are our trigger because a lot of the times like If some if the crap's going to hit the fan it hits the fan like at the big family event at the holiday at grandma's 80th birthday dinner, whatever. I understand what you're saying.
So you're saying you don't want to include him How can you separate with others and is that being honest or is that being avoidant? I think that it is being honest. [00:18:00] It's honestly avoiding a bad situation that you don't want to be in. The thing of it is it's going to require you to have an awkward conversation, for sure.
And if I were you, I would probably be just upfront about it, Not angry, not yelling, not mean, but just say, Hey, in the past, these situations don't really go well. So I think I'm just going to go myself this year, whatever, but you need to be upfront and honest in a kind way. Now your person may say to you I promise I won't Drink when I get there or I'll only have a little or I won't get higher, whatever it is that they're struggling with.
And then you're going to have to make another decision because probably you've been told that in the past. And so you're thinking like, no, I don't really believe that. Like I hear what you're saying. And if you make the decision that you just want to go by yourself, you can hold to that boundary and.
You just need to make sure you keep good boundaries on your side when you communicate it. You're going to communicate it without anger. You're going to be honest, but not hurtful [00:19:00] because if you're yelling, screaming, name calling, threatening, all that stuff, then you've crossed the boundary. So as long as you keep your healthy boundary, you're going to be all right.
Grace, do they seriously believe their own lies and narrative? I would love to know. Yes, Grace, especially the ones that have to do with the rationalizing and the emotions behind what happened. And the reason is because their brain chemistry is actually so jacked up. Like when someone comes and tells me like, my wife is so mean, she just nags me all the time.
And that's why I got to drink. That's one of those things that they actually believe like for reals, because in some ways they're orchestrating events to happen in certain ways. Like they're orchestrating someone to be really nasty with them. And some of that's conscious in some subconscious.
And the other thing is just that brain chemistry. Like when your neurochemicals are all out of balance, you're perceived things very differently from what's happening in reality. So it feels that way. To you. So it feels like [00:20:00] it's truthful to you. So yes. They seriously believe that.
Especially alcoholics, because a lot of times they don't remember what happened. Sarah says, Question. Trying to build trust with my husband, he frequently tells me, I don't think you'll ever trust me again. At first I was manipulated into quickly saying, Of course I will. Lately I've resorted to saying, I can trust trustworthy people.
Are you trustworthy? Recently, I suspected he had liquor hidden in the locked car. Once he unlocked it, there was no alcohol in there. I apologized and said, I'm sorry, I was wrong. Similar to what you explain in your videos, Am I playing the bad guy role? I think I would give you on that.
It's not full bad guy role. . But we're going to give you like a few points in the bad guy lane. And the reason is because your response is very passive aggressive. I'll trust, trustworthy people, which like I said, is. Technically true, but definitely passive aggressive. So it's not like fully out in the bad guy role
you didn't yell, scream, or tell them every bad thing they ever did or nothing like that. [00:21:00] That'd be full in it. You're like a step or two in there. One thing, because I know you're thinking what am I supposed to say? Because you're batted up against the wall. What's maybe a helpful thing to say in a situation like that is when they say you don't trust me, you're never going to trust me.
You can say, I know I you're right. I do have a hard time trusting you, but I know we're going to get on the other side of this and I know we're going to get to the point where we trust each other again. So just say that's what I would say. So just own it, but not in a mean way. Kate says they misinterpreted a situation to make me the bad guy and refuse to resolve it or believe my side.
Is there any point trying to convince them? So it sounds to me. I don't know for sure, cause I don't know the whole situation, Kate, but it sounds to me like one of those kind of like I said, they'll force you. Sometimes they just set up the situation that no matter what you do, you're in the bad guy role and that can definitely happen.
And if that's happening, there is no convincing them otherwise. And the harder you try to convince, the more likely you are to like really actually get in the bag I roll. Cause you're going to get yourself so frustrated and so worked up and you're going to get your police badge out [00:22:00] and prove all this stuff and be defensive that you're going to get worked up, man.
And then you're going to be. You're going to cross the boundary and be nasty or ugly. So you're going to have to just back out of that. And there sometimes you just got to let people believe what they believe at the moment. It will surface.
70 says my family skirts around the issues surrounding my mom's alcoholism because I'm uncomfortable to address the drinking. How can we have conversations with my mom when it involves drinking behavior and consequences? Stephanie, I don't know if you've I've talked about this in some other videos, which I don't know if you've seen or not, but before you talk to someone directly about their addictive behavior, I suggest you, and you may already have this, but if you don't get into a situation where you can talk about other things non defensively, where you can have just good conversations about other things and work into talking to someone about their addictive behavior, because that's the most stressful, high risk, likely to go sideways on you situation there is this like direct confrontation.
And [00:23:00] when you do it, you have to do it. And as, as calm and non judgmental way as you possibly can, if you're trying to, sometimes we get so frustrated because it's like, how can you not see this? And we just want to like, rip their denial off. Like we're ripping like some kind of blindfold off of them or something.
And when we try to do it too quickly like that's when it backfires.
What's that name, Bree? Mo Mori. Mori? Am I saying that right, Bree? I don't know. I need to set boundaries for my 35 year old son who lives with us. How can I make sure he's accountable? He's an alcoholic and has dabbled in pills. Thanks. Accountable for what, Mori? I'm thinking you can make him, if he's 34 years old, you probably should make him accountable for, paying some sort of rent And because he's an adult so accountable in that way or accountable in another way.
I'm not sure
michelle says my Addicted loved one has pretty much relapsed with alcohol consumption. He says he's trying to [00:24:00] moderate It is clear that he is bargaining that you talk about We are having a weekly check in to see if he is Try if his trying is working. It's not obviously how do I be supportive of him?
But nudge him to realize that he can't do this on his own this is a good question. My first the first thought that popped in my head michelle when I was reading this is I'm having mixed feelings about whether or not you should do the weekly check ins. I definitely get the reasoning for it. It's because it's like we're trying to check on the situation and but honestly what you really want to do when the bargaining is not working is you want to step out and you want to don't do anything to make sure he stays in line with it.
If you're checking in with him you might prolong this whole like trying to moderate it thing when if you would just step back. Obviously, I'm not saying put the alcohol in front of them. I'm not telling you to make them drink. I'm just trying to say, stop trying to stop it.
Because what you want, is you want for it to go [00:25:00] bad fast. So we can get out of denial. If you're trying to get them to see it's not working, you just need to step out and let it roll. Instead of, if you're at the restaurant and he orders He's already had three drinks and that's his limit.
He set for himself three drinks. I don't want you to say something like, that was your third one. You're not supposed to order another one. I don't want you to do that. I don't even want you to do a little sigh into your breath or like an eye roll or a huff if you can help it, just let it roll because that's going to make it obvious.
faster. Jamie says my boyfriend has been trying to get sober from pills for six months. He has changed a lot, talked like, I can't live like this anymore, but five days later he comes home high again. How can I help him stay sober? The first thing I would do if this person was in my office, Jamie, is I would say, dude, if you're staying sober, If you're staying like clean for five days, I know you mean it because probably was really hard because those first five days are the hardest days.
So the first thing I know is that they are genuinely trying if they're staying clean for five days. That takes some decent effort. Okay. So if they're been [00:26:00] using every day, that takes some effort. So I would validate that and acknowledge that instead of coming at them and saying dude, you keep saying this, why isn't it working?
So first thing I would do is say that, and then I would say, what do you think? If this was my client, then I would say, what do you think is happening every five days? Is it like the weekend comes, the weekend's a trigger? Is it like you're running out of willpower? Is it like you have to work really long day on Thursday and you're just exhausted and that's why you relapse?
I would just explore with them what's happening around, if they're having this pattern of every so many days, what's happening to help them gain some insight and so that maybe they can strategically think five steps ahead of that and get in front of it. Cause if they're getting five days, they're trying.
Bloom on says, how do you get them to see they are deceiving themselves? You you, like I was telling the person before who said their loved one was trying to moderate, you just step back and don't play any of the roles that they're trying to make you play, [00:27:00] which is usually the bad guy role and sometimes the rescuer role, if you step back and you stop playing into the whole thing they'll see things faster because you're not distracting them. You're not fixing everything for them. And it'll, it will come to the surface. Denial is something that will, that always eventually goes away one way or the other. They figured out and they, put their shovel down and they get out of it before they hit bottom or they hit a bunch of bottoms and then it's abundantly clear and they see it that Denial will clear.
KP, is there a correlation between existentialist thinking and addiction? How can we differentiate between deep contemplation and deflection among individuals struggling with addiction? This is an interesting question. I like this question. So it's you're talking about, it's like you're having, you're talking to a person who maybe has a tendency to like to have deep philosophical conversations and that kind of thing.
It's they're interesting conversations. And if it's this person's personality, like that's just like who [00:28:00] they are, then I would say it's just who they are, but it's not really who they are and they're just suddenly having these deep philosophical existential conversations with you that have something to do around the drug.
Then I would say that's probably, like you said, deflection or manipulation. If you think someone's trying to deflect a conversation through either one of these really intense conversations or by starting argument or by bringing up something else, then I would just gently call the deflection to the surface and say, Hey, yeah, that let's talk about that later, but let's finish the conversation we're having right now or whatever.
Cause they'll try to sidetrack you. So I feel like I would have to know more about what you're saying, but it's definitely interesting question. It's at least a new manipulation tactic. I like it. I like something new every now and then. How do you tolerate intoxicated person's behavior?
It's so draining and exhausting. How can you tolerate drunken behavior? It's horrible to live with. It's Groundhog's Day. Every day in the morning he acts like nothing happened. My first thought when I read that question, [00:29:00] Michelle, when you said, how do you tolerate it? My thought was not very well because I'm putting myself in your shoes and it is very difficult to be around somebody if they're intoxicated, especially on something like alcohol, because they can really be different than themselves.
They can be obnoxious or sloppy or angry or aggressive or you know any number of things it's like not even their normal selves and so I try to get distance from it so if you're in the house with them I try to like physically get distance from them if you can't then you may want to like Leave that situation and at least do yourself a favor and try to consume yourself with your own things so that you're distracted and you're not like literally sitting in that front row seat watching it all the time.
It is hard. My answer is I probably would not tolerate it very well or for very long, especially if somebody's behavior is like nasty.
Chen says, I've tried to hold my alcoholic co parent accountable for telling [00:30:00] you they would get help as our custody agreement. They get mad and ghost and silent treatment. How should I handle it? Okay, so you're separated from this person and you, or sharing custody, your kid goes over there and they said they would get help, but they're not getting help.
If it's in the custody agreement and you've tried to, obviously you've tried to talk to them and they're just not talking to you about it, then I would, you're probably going to have to go back and have it enforced in that kind of way. You don't have much leverage over a co parent, you don't have the relationship leverage.
You don't have the eyes on it all the time. Yeah. So I would probably either legally enforce it or if they're trying to tell you like, I'm sober, I don't need to go to treatment, then I would at least have them say, okay you agree to some kind of regular testing or something like that so that I know you're sober if they're sober and they didn't go to treatment.
They're sober. If they can do it without going to treatment. Okay, great as long as it's happening So if that's what they're telling you I would ask for some kind of let me see [00:31:00] some drug screens or something Ann says just came to acceptance of my 40 year old son's addiction to alcohol All the things came flooding to my mind.
I've been so grateful for your channel. I'm really grieving. How do I best handle this? Is interesting and because sometimes it does hit you like a ton of bricks like for a lot of people it's like they're seeing it and they're watching it build and they're aware and it's like Really long and dragged out, but sometimes, especially if this is like an adult kid and maybe they don't live with you or something, so you don't see them all the time.
It's oh my God, they're an alcoholic. One thing is that. Being an alcoholic isn't the worst thing in the world. My guess is even if you've not been aware there's alcohol problem, you've probably been aware that there's some kind of problems going on. And maybe you thought it was depression.
Maybe you thought something's wrong with their brain. Maybe you thought they were in a bad marriage. I don't know what you thought but now you know what it is. And that thing that it is very fixable. In fact, of all the mental health things that could possibly be going wrong with someone, I think addiction is like the most fixable of the things.
[00:32:00] Cause. There's a very clear solution. And when you do the solution, things get a hundred percent better, at least 80 or 90 percent better pretty dang quickly. So I get that it's sad and I don't want to minimize that in any way but it is a problem that can be dealt with. And now that you know what it is, you can be strategic about how to fix it.
Because probably you've been trying to figure out what is going on with him and trying a whole bunch of things that didn't Work, so at least we got it. We got a diagnosis. We know let's get moving on it
Aaron says how can I address the flurry of anger that is feeling like a forced manipulation? He's desperate. No job homeless has 18 in a phone is almost out of power Contract contact kicked out of dad's house. And he has had a pattern of being bad. So people feel bad for him. And then he disappears. You don't hear from him.
He can't keep a job, sold his car and was living in off and on. Now he's flipped out. So [00:33:00] basically what I think you're saying, Aaron, is that the manipulation tactic at hand is aggression or or at least it's He's angry, he's mad, he's pushing. So it's like either pestering or aggression.
He's basically trying to like bully you into something. Or is it more that he's trying to be pitiful? Cause at the beginning you said flurry of anger, but in this second part, you're saying he has a tendency where you're saying he has a tendency to be bad. So people feel bad for him. And now he's flipping out.
If someone's flipping out and they're being really nasty then I would get distance from them. You do not have to take every phone call. And when someone's in a flipped out stage, even if it is a manipulation, they're not in a state of mind to be reasoned with or rationalized with. So I would just back up from the conversation.
I would literally leave the conversation until the person was calmer.
Neon Bean says, what is the rescuer role? Oh, that's a really good question. Rescuer is actually a term from there's this sort of like model called the drama triangle and [00:34:00] it actually looks like a triangle but it's upside down so think about the pointy part at the bottom and on one side is the rescuer on one side is the perpetrator and at the bottom point is what's called the victim and we all get in these different Mindsets and these mindsets cause other problematic behaviors.
All of these roles are dysfunctional. The rescuer is the fixer. They're the ones that are trying to fix the problems, trying to pay the bills, trying to like clean up the messes. That's the rescue role. The problem with the rescue role is not just the fact that it's enabling, but what ends up happening to rescuers is that they sacrifice so much and they do so much and they give so much thinking that they're going to help, but they're The victim person that and it doesn't work.
And the victim person just keeps being a victim and they keep having the problems. And then what happens is then you, as a rescuer, start to feel a lot of resentment. And once you start to feel that resentment, guess what? Now you've moved into the victim role. Now you're a [00:35:00] victim of they're taking advantage of you.
And then once you move down into the victim role, guess what usually happens? Then you usually act out in some way, aggressively or passive aggressively. And, tell them all the things you've been. Thinking or whatever, and now you've moved into the perpetrator role. The thing about the triangle is one leads to the other, leads to the other, and it's all dysfunctional.
Rachel says, Is it the same approach when your loved one is on methadone and still seems to be functioning from The addict brain also, how much do I help him get into a place to live, et cetera. She's once he is now on probation and is being drug tested and going to the clinic. For those of you don't know, methadone is a is a maintenance medicine for people who are addicted to opioids.
And if he's taking it As he's supposed to and appropriately and he's not taking a whole bunch of other stuff Even if he's taking that medicine, I would still consider him in the recovery process so I would approach it like that's part of his recovery process these days. Most people go [00:36:00] with suboxone over methadone but it just depends on where you live in some other circumstances.
So when you're saying he's on the methadone, but he still seems to be functioning with the attic brain Then it You that the methadone is not stabilizing the situation
The right treatment, which probably isn't it. Or they're not doing it the way they're supposed to, or they're doing the method on the way they're supposed to, but they're doing a whole bunch of other things, or if they're very early in the process, it could be that they're taking the medicine the way they're supposed to, and they're being sober or whatever, but they're not.
But they've been acting in these ways for so long. It's automatic. And it does take a while for that to go away. A lot of people in early recovery, they just, they're so used to lying. They'll just automatically lie to you about the stupidest things. And they don't even know why they did it because they're so used to hiding.
They'll be like, what'd you have for lunch? And they'll tell you I had a sandwich when they had a taco or whatever. And they're just, It's like an automatic. So I don't know why that's happening. My sketchy part of my brain says that there's probably a piece of this [00:37:00] story. It doesn't line up.
There's probably a missing piece.
Melanie says, am I doing the right thing by limiting how much money husband has or money, is really tight by me handling the money. We have the money to be able to pay our bills every month, but that's it. Cause I know he will buy beer with the money I will give him. This is a hard question. And it's a great boundary question, Melody, because it's like, we got to pay the bills.
And if you don't manage that really well, then he probably is. He what you're saying is if I don't manage it really He'll take all that money and buy a bunch of alcohol and we literally won't be able to pay our bills so If what you're doing is just paying the bills and there's not much left over Then I think that you're probably in okay lines If what you're doing is using the money as a way to try to control the drinking or manipulate the situation Then you're probably over on his side of the street and the reason why this is so interesting is because it's like you [00:38:00] can Be doing This, but depending on why you're doing it is is it in the healthy lane or is it in the not healthy lane?
Part of me thinks if you're limiting the money, mostly because you're trying to limit the drinking, you might, you could be slowing down the get out of denial process. Cause like I said, when they're in denial, what you want is you want it to roll fast so we can quit trying to pretend like this is working, there's a lot of ways to think about that.
Bonnie says, I went to outpatient rehab and finished. I've been sober 14 months now. Hey, nice work, Bonnie. I love it. Mother's Day is coming. My grown kids still won't talk to me. What do I do? This is a heartbreaking Bonnie because you've got 14 months sober.
You have come so far and I'm sure you have tried to reach out to them and you've tried to make amends and you're doing really good and it is so frustrating because they don't even care to see if you're really doing good. But I have the belief if someone [00:39:00] sets a boundary with you and they don't want to talk to you, you have to respect that boundary, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, no matter what side it's on.
If it's a breakup and someone doesn't want to talk to you, if it's an ex friend, if whatever it is, you have to respect their boundary and understand where they're coming from. That's hard. It hurts. I get it.
Barbie says, what is the invisible intervention? I looked for your video on it. Good question, Barbie. The invisible intervention is our process, the process that we came up with to get people out of denial. And into the stages of change and then ultimately sober. And the reason we call it the invisible intervention is because it's not like the kind of intervention where you like everybody sits in the circle and reads their letter.
It's not like this super direct confrontational. It's a set of skills and techniques that you use behind the scenes that help to illuminate the truth faster. And keep you out of the bad guy role. A lot of it is communication skills. It's [00:40:00] positive reinforcement and goal setting. There's a lot of pieces to it.
The reason why I like it so much is because once you learn these skills, not only does it help get your loved one out of the now, but these are everything you learn in the invisible intervention actually are just good skills to have that you can use in pretty much any situation to make relationships better, to be more successful at work, all those kinds of things.
Else about the invisible intervention? Oh, the other thing I really. Like about it is because it does take a little longer than sitting in a circle and confronting somebody old school intervention style, but it, when it. Once the person gets out of denial, the recovery kind of takes because you've literally plowed the ground and all the right ways.
So when we get there, we're really there. We're done with our bargaining. We're done trying to blame everybody else. Like we really get it. That's the point is to get them to really get it and then take action because you see so many times people go to treatment and then they lapse like a treatment and they lapse and treatment and lapse.
And sometimes if we can get the stage set the right way and then we get help. Then it takes. All right, everybody. Thank you guys for [00:41:00] joining me. I actually have a special guest coming next week to talk about something totally different, not totally different from addiction, but something you don't hear me talk about a lot.
So show up for that. You're not going to want to miss it. I'll see you soon. Bye everybody.
