Exposing Jodi Hildebrandt's TWISTED Therapeutic Strategies
===
[00:00:00] Today we're going to be into a controversial topic. Now this video is slightly different than my normal videos, but I've been following this situation for awhile and it's just come to the point where I feel like I have to weigh in on the discussion. We're going to be talking about the recent lawsuit filed against Jody Hillbrand and for those of you who are following, she is a licensed counselor who was recently jailed for serious child abuse allegations.
And not only is she a counselor, but she's an addictions counselor, which is why I wanted to jump on here and talk about the differences between Jodi Hildebrandt strategies and methods that are commonly accepted as research proven good treatment strategy. I want to take a look at the difference because believe it or not her concepts are pretty on target when it comes to addiction recovery.
But there's a spot where they veer [00:01:00] off track and I want to explore with you where that spot is so you can differentiate between what she's instructing people to do or telling people to do and in what you would probably find at almost any other Counselor's office treatment facility anything else out there now, of course, there is lots of different models of addiction recovery There are a lot of ways to do it But there are some guidelines some guardrails if you will about things that you do and things that you don't do And I personally think miss hildebrandt jumped the guardrails on many of these issues.
Some of you may not be familiar with me. Mostly this channel is about helping you understand the science and psychology of addiction and how to get out of it before you or your loved one hits bottom.
But today we're going to be veering into this true crime lane. Mostly because I have a lot of opinions about it, but secondly, because I follow a lot of true crime, it's a side passion of mine, and when I hear about something [00:02:00] that is so closely related to what I do every day, it naturally strikes a chord with me.
Let's start by talking about some of Jodi Hildebrandt's main sort of philosophical ideas as far as how she does addiction treatment. Now I'm getting this information based on lots of videos, lots of articles, lots of discussion, a lot of which is information came out related to the case that she was involved in with Frankie.
Basically, if you're used to my channel, you may not follow this part, but there was a really well known family vlogger and her last name was Frankie. And she had gotten involved with this. Counselor, Jody Hildebrandt, who was pretty well known in the Mormon community and treated and helped a lot of families involved in that religion.
And she got connected up with her and in the. There's a lot of things that happen. We'll talk about some of those but in the end what kind of broke this [00:03:00] case into the media was two of Frankie's children Were basically being locked up held captive And abused as in starved chained Physically abused, emotionally abused, all the kinds.
And one of those children the boy who was slightly older escaped to a neighbor's house and asked the neighbors to call police and authorities. If you haven't seen this, you can actually hear this 911 call made by this neighbor.
And yeah. It is heartbreaking. It's like you're listening to this guy tell you, Hey, there's this kid here. He needs help. As he's on the phone with the operator, you can tell he's like Figuring out what's going on. He's he's got marks on his legs Like I think something's happening and you can feel the emotions start to well up in him just as he's like Realizing right on this like phone call.
Oh my gosh. This is super serious what happened. So as a result of that call obviously this boy was given some help and then the authorities went into [00:04:00] Jodi Hildebrandt's house, this big five million dollar house, and found the sister of this little boy locked away in a room. And when you hear, I won't go into all of it, because that's not what this channel is about, but some really terrible, horrible things happened to those children.
Apparently, A few days ago, there was a recent other lawsuit that was taken out by someone that is not in the Frankie situation, but another, this is done by a spouse of someone who's, this is the husband, ex husband, whose wife had gotten involved in this Hildebrandt community, which she called Connections, that was the name of her sort of treatment program.
And he, Basically is filing a lawsuit because a lot of what happened in the Frankie case is exactly what happened in his case. And that's what I want to take a look at. What is happening? What are these families alleging happened? And if it happened that way, how does that [00:05:00] veer off track with what is acceptable practice in the realm of addiction recovery?
Now the common philosophies that when you hear them on the surface, they don't really sound all that different, to be honest, than what you typically hear about in addiction recovery circles accountability, personal responsibility learning to have healthy relationships.
And you will hear any addiction program, addiction counselor, whatever, talk about these things. These are common ideas and philosophies. One of the biggest things that you hear in the connections program is this concept called distortion. And what she means by distortion is when someone gets distorts themself and distorts the reality of a situation to other people what she calls to Manipulate or to deceive and this is where I think the whole thing gets tricky because it's There's a lot of truth in that but then what the way she's using that veers off out of the lane very similar to [00:06:00] how you see Cult branch off from a religious group.
It's like it starts in a mainstream religion and the concepts are there and it's yeah, I can track that, following along. And then somewhere along the way, it just goes off the rails. And I feel like it's very similar here. So the underpinnings of some of the things she teaches, I think hold weight.
And I think that there's a lot of truth in that, Which is what makes it so easy for people to buy into right because you can read about addiction online You can look at it and a lot of these ideas really hold up. So it's not like it's so far out there that it would even Grab your attention
there just becomes a divergence and that's where I want to talk about where that is some of the things that she talks about with distortion Really? I think what she's talking about is what I would call A defense mechanism that people with addiction have, where they, and there's several versions of it, but basically there's a self deception that goes on when you have addiction.
In fact, there's a self deception [00:07:00] that goes on with any of us about a lot of things, a lot of the time. In the Hildebrandt case, she's taking this addiction recovery concept and she's applying it to all kinds of situations, which I don't necessarily disagree with. Just like I said, we all can self deceive.
We can all distort things. And most of the time, we don't even realize we're doing it. Where it comes in with addiction is that it just happens a lot more frequently. And those denial defense mechanisms are just the regular ones built up on steroids. Psychological ideas apply to all of us, but There's a difference in the way that she is encouraging people to go about dealing with them.
I think that's where the differentiation comes in. It's not so much that the concepts are that far off base. It's how she's recommending or I guess I wasn't there. I've not talked to her. So I should say allegedly she's recommending or recommended for people to handle these situations. Her therapeutic interventions would Differ greatly, I think, than pretty much anyone else that you're [00:08:00] going to find out there.
The way she goes about dealing with it is A lot of confrontation and confrontation of itself isn't like completely foreign to addiction recovery, but this is like super duper heavy in your face for the purpose of calling you out and being like harsh with you. Confrontation whereas the word confrontation in a therapeutic environment, it means something different than maybe what you might think when you hear the word competition.
When you hear the word competition, you might think like somebody get into a fight or starting a big argument. Therapeutically, what the word means is just that you Highlight the discrepancy between what someone is either doing or saying and what their behavior is. So if someone says, my, my family is my top value.
I care about them more than anything else. A counselor might come in and highlight, gently highlight or help the person see where their behavior isn't necessarily aligning with that And the purpose really is to get a person to see to confront some cognitive dissonance [00:09:00] that's happening And see the truth.
Like I said, we can all do this. We can all rationalize And justify and minimize It's a human experience. It's just that when it comes to addiction, it just happens a lot more frequently and because it happens a lot more frequently It begins to where it's happening all the time And you end up dealing with someone who's in later stage addiction They really are almost delusional their ability to see The truth and reality around them Is quite distorted.
So in that realm, I absolutely agree with her. It's this confrontational way That she's recommending that these families Handle it and not only that but the allegations say I don't know if this is true But I think maybe they are but that's just opinion that a lot of these people that she was deeming had addictions a lot of them were husbands I see a lot of husbands myself, but I'll say a lot of wives and other people too.
But that these husbands had addiction addictions that some of these [00:10:00] husbands are coming out now and saying, that's not even true. There was not even any evidence of that. Like it was like completely fabricated her saying I had these addictions and then telling my family basically to disconnect.
A lot of these women who were involved in the connections program were advised to or allegedly were advised to basically separate from their husbands and have their husbands leave the home or them leave the home and to have very minimal contact with the husbands and have the husbands have very minimal contact with the kids, if there's kids in the house
the part where it kind of veers out of addiction counseling land into Cult land is There's a lot of allegations around her saying you can only listen to me. You cannot see any other therapist You cannot do any other program and she would advise these families to say to their loved one who? Supposedly had addictions.
Maybe they didn't that if you don't sign up and pay all this money for Jodi Hildebrandt's [00:11:00] program Then I'm not gonna be with you. I'm not you know, I'm gonna keep you from your kids So it's basically blackmailing them, if you will, into a specific program, but to say that you have to follow this specific program, you cannot go anywhere else. There's even an allegation that's if you go anywhere else, then that's it. You're out this sort of boundary that's being set. That part is. Is way outside the norm. And I think that's where I think it goes into this Out of the addiction counseling land into cult land very similar to how some things go Out of the religion land and into the cult land.
Like I said, there's some underpinnings that are similar, but where does it cross over? In addition to the confrontational style and this sort of dissociation with the person there's this underpinning of Punishment and in the land of addiction recovery boundaries is a huge issue.
It's a difficult Complex topic, especially when it comes to addiction that you have to figure out [00:12:00] where are my boundaries versus what is trying to control another person versus what is trying to punish another person and I Personally, it's my personal opinion feel like if what was reported is was really happening What was happening was punishment.
I am punishing you. For having these distortions and I want to remind you that most of the time when people that have addictions have distortions They're subconscious like they're not even aware that they're doing it. So it's not a purposeful misbehavior It's something that happens in these sort of subconscious psychological defense mechanisms that are there to protect us against some idea or concept that we Just are not ready to handle a lot of times that has to do with Oh, my gosh, like I'm ruining my life.
I'm destroying my family. I'm making all these bad decisions and it's like a person's ego state just can't handle it. So there's all these unconscious. Psychological mechanisms at play. So there's this [00:13:00] punishment Philosophy in Hildebrandt's culture and that's where it comes in and you might be wondering where does that come in with children?
I've wanted the same thing myself, right? So she's taking these concepts from addiction and then saying, Children can go off the rails and they can distort and they are by nature sort of evil, essentially, and you have to set them straight and the way that she's encouraging parents to do that, the parents that were in this program was by punishment, either physical punishment, the kind, that's really not punishment, but has the a word involved, you know what I'm talking about and or love withdrawal or isolation or neglect or withholding food shame, all these other sort of tactics.
And I don't care what kind of counselor you are and she was a licensed counselor there. Everything and every research and every literature and every book that you could possibly get a hold of would tell you the opposite of that is what you need to do. Whether it is with someone who has an addiction or a child [00:14:00] who's off.
Okay, like pretty much with everybody, but a million times more with a child. You do not go about it that way. Even if your child is struggling, even if they're rationalizing, even if they are distorting, you do not punish it out of them. That is Number one is harm in the child.
And number two, it's not from a counsel perspective. It's not likely to get you the results that you want at all. It's likely to get you more lying, more distortion, more defense mechanism, and it can feel like it works because you can force compliance sometimes but you can't force like recovery and you can't force these Lessons as she would call it onto these children.
There is no circumstance where you need to be Starving a child none. There's no circumstance where a child needs to be locked up and away from anyone else. It's just Wild how far that you can get and the biggest thing that I want to get you to hear is yes There is such a thing as distortion [00:15:00] and this case of Jodi Hildebrandt is probably one of the most severe cases of distortion That I've run across that I hear about so is it a thing?
Yeah, it's a thing and she has it the worst and not only does she have it the worst, but she's out there like preaching basically this same thing to other people and then They're falling into these distorted views and basically being brainwashed.
And in the end, you end up with a whole bunch of wives who have made their husbands leave, basically, and are saying you're not falling in line with this program. I do want to talk just a minute about the lawsuit specifically. There are some things I understand about it, and I'm not a legal expert, and there are some things I don't.
So I'm hoping that you guys can weigh in and help me with some of this. There's something in the lawsuit that's filed about, that talks specifically about how Jody Hildebrandt has a counselor license, but when you come into the Connections program, you have to sign paperwork that says that basically that you [00:16:00] acknowledge.
This is not psychotherapy. This is not counseling. This is basically life coaching and in the lawsuit Basically, the person is saying and this right there should be your giant red flag it's not out of the realm of possibility It's not even that uncommon for licensed counselors to maybe decide that they want to do some like coaching and not counseling in fact I've done that and I can explain more about that and and why Someone might do that.
So and then if you're doing that then yeah You need to have paperwork and you need to make sure people understand. Hey, this isn't counseling. Here are the rules of the game Here's where it's similar. Here's where it's different. You need to explain it's called informed consent So the fact that she would have people sign paperwork like that the fact that she's saying this is coaching and not counseling Those things are not Abnormal or outside of the realm.
I have a counseling license in south carolina and I have a whole 20 years of history of treating people and families who have addictions but several years back I started making youtube videos just teaching people about the science and [00:17:00] psychology of addiction and because of that now a lot of What I do is really just short term consultation, like as in someone makes an appointment and says, Hey, here's what's going on in my situation.
What do you advise? What stage of change you're in, which is really is very different than like counseling where you're getting into like diagnosis and you're getting into childhood issues. And it's just a lot different than coaching is more based on growth and it is more directive and. So there is a difference.
It's not uncommon for counselors to do that, to go from one realm to the other. And when you have a license, it is important to differentiate. So I don't really feel like that in and of itself is so far out of the lines. It's more this part that's not necessarily in the paperwork. That's this underpinning of these messages of you can only, if you don't follow this philosophy, Your family's going to be gone.
This is where people are being held hostage. Now I can relate to this topic so strongly because not only [00:18:00] do I see people who have addictions, but what I do really is deal with families who have addictions. So I'm very well versed in dealing with the person who has addiction and their family and it can get messy and it can get complicated.
In our practice, we have coaches or counselors that deal with the family and we have coaches and counselors that deal with the person who has addiction. That way, both sides are represented because a lot of times in these families, there is a huge divide. There's a lot of he said, she said.
There's a lot of disagreement about what's going on and who's addicted and how bad it is and how it's being handled. And it's, it is very important to be able to have your own safe space to work through these issues. And so when you're getting into this complexity of She's treating the person that has addiction But also treating the family member and then telling the family member to basically out this person That's where it can get complicated It's not completely unusual for someone coaching or counseling a family member of someone who has an [00:19:00] addiction to say Hey, I think you might need to set some healthy boundaries and to talk to the person about where those healthy boundaries should be and in the incidences where a person's addiction is causing harm to the spouse, causing harm to the children, like a completely un, not okay situation, then you may, yes, you may need to distance yourself from that situation.
But the way it's being used here is more like punishment, blackmail, being held hostage, do what I say or else. If you look on the channel where I talk about boundaries, the concept of do I stay or do I go is a big one. There is a point that you have to distance yourself for your own mental health, for your own safety, for the safety of your family.
You just got to do that. But removing yourself from the addictive person, Isn't necessarily what the addicted person needs. So you have to separate. Why am I doing that? I'm doing that because if I don't they're going to take everybody down with them Versus i'm doing that to teach them a lesson and to show them that I really mean it and they better get their act together Else [00:20:00] and I get the impression that it was more along those lines in the hildebrandt Connections.
It's what she's calling boundaries, but what in reality is punishment and controlling behavior and it can be a little bit hard to differentiate when you have a loved one who has an addiction. Where is a boundary and what is controlling addictive behavior and it.
It's more complicated than this, but I'll give you a simple formula. But basically it's you can draw boundaries for yourself. I like to say you can put a fence around your backyard. Your neighbor's not going to like it if you put a fence around theirs. So you can say what you will or won't do. That is called a boundary, right?
When you start trying to tell someone else what they can and can't do, that is called a rule. And when you throw out what you're going to call a consequence of that, it's really a punishment, usually. If this, then, this is the, most of the time people use the word consequence, but it really is a punishment, then that, right?
For example, a difference might [00:21:00] be, if you come home intoxicated and you're putting me and the kids in a dangerous situation, I'm going to remove myself from the house. And if you don't figure out a deal with it, then I might have to figure out something completely right. That is completely different than if you don't follow these exact rules and you don't do exactly what this specific person says, then I'm not going to talk to you.
You're not going to talk to your kids. And I don't know if this was said, this is just me deciding it, but it's interesting because these women would have their husbands move out or leave their husbands, but they wouldn't divorce them. I'm guessing it was encouraged it this way because if you divorce them, they get to go to court and then they get some kind of custody rights. If you're just Blackmailing them and you have them leave they don't have any custody rights
you don't have any ability to say it's my weekend with the kids or you're doing this or you're not doing that If you're not divorced and i've seen Families in this situation a lot of times families are in that situation because they really are trying to work it out Right and they're trying to figure [00:22:00] out How to get better or how to find our middle ground, but I think in this circumstance, it was pretty purposeful, right?
It's like just keep them out there and then you're holding all the cards. You're controlling all of it just leaving them on the hook of we might get back together or it might get better and you have to follow all these rules there's just no protection for that the isolation of people The punishment of people that you have to do it my way and that's the only way All of that is where it jumps the rails, and I hope that if you're in a situation like this where you maybe you or you have a loved one who's struggling with addiction, it really is important to understand the difference in these two things because you can get pulled down the wrong path.
I'm not sure why this happened. I don't want to give. Ms. Hildebrandt, any kind of diagnosis? Obviously, we can all jump to some conclusions there, but there definitely seems to be themes of power, control, and money, [00:23:00] right? And there's a force around that, that when you have a license, there are a lot of protections against that kind of thing.
When you're a counselor, you're actually what's called a mandated reporter. You have to report any kind of abuse that's going on. And in this situation, Not only she's not reporting it, but she was encouraging it and doling it out. And that's where it really went off the rails into cult land and out of addiction helpland.
There's also the religious Undertones or overtures around all this I think also played in To the situation and then when it comes to the ruby frankie case specifically, I've no idea This is just total speculation she had that big youtube channel and she was known for super strict parenting and at some point She starts getting a lot of pushback and flack and feedback about people being upset about the strict parenting.
And I don't know where Hildebrandt came in [00:24:00] into the storyline. So it's hard for me to say, did Hildebrandt come in and that's where the strict parenting originated from? Or was that already going on? And then, Ruby's trying to justify, right? Distort Her own parenting things, and then she finds Hildebrandt, and if that's the case you can see why this would be like the perfect Lineup, right?
It's like now I have found somebody who's going to give me the therapeutic backing for why not only do I need to Be that strict, but I need to be you know that times ten, right? I need to take that and Turn the heat up on it By a million. Okay, so I don't know if it was originated with Hildebrandt. My guess is it was already there and then Hildebrandt came in.
Does anybody know? Does anybody know the timeline? If you're interested in this case, or if you're already following it, there's a lot of good coverage out there. One of the channels that I watch a lot is Hidden True Crime and they have Lots of videos on this case, and one of the reasons why I follow [00:25:00] that channel is because it's made up of a husband and wife, and the wife, Lauren, is by trade a news reporter, so she has like this great ability to tell the story, right?
And then the husband is a forensic psychologist. And so when you bring those two things together, that makes for a really great channel. And so they have not just the story and the report of what's happening, but you can hear her husband's name. They call him Dr. John. And then Dr. John weighs in about all the psychological parts.
And they do it way more professional than I do it. And Dr. John just breaks out all the clinical terms and breaks it down for you. And they do an excellent job. So if you want to know more about it, follow them. They follow a lot of cases and they do. Really good work on all the cases they follow.
This is just one of them. They got a lot of videos on it now There's some things in this Lawsuit that have to do with wire fraud and racketeering so I'm gonna ask you guys those of you that know Explain that part to me.
Why what they're doing is it was wire fraud and how that charges in there and [00:26:00] then this like racketeering. Those are legal words. I think and I need your help pulling that piece of information understanding into this storyline in this lawsuit in a general sense.
I see what this lawsuit is saying. You are supposed to be a counselor. You are supposed to protect us and protect families. And you're like destroying families. You're abusing us. You are using your power to cause harm, which is pretty much the number one ethical. ~And so when you're using.~
~You're I don't want to say the word status, but you're, ~when you're someone's counselor, people are looking to you so you hold a lot of power, not control, but you have a lot of power and influence over them. You have to be very careful with that. And that's why there are these guidelines in place to keep.
People safe from that because counseling or coaching is a very intimate process. And you do start to trust this person and you're giving them advice and you've. All of your intimate, vulnerable details with them and you trust them. And so there's gotta be some guidelines in place to keep that power [00:27:00] dynamic safe for people.
And that did not happen in this situation at all. If you're watching live, I'd love to hear from you about what your thoughts are about this. If you're watching and you're like, a professional, like a counselor, a psychiatrist, a doctor, an addictions counselor, social worker. If you're in this realm, I would definitely love to hear from you what your thoughts and feelings about this are.
Because it's a great example of what can happen when there's no guardrails in place. And what can happen when someone doesn't. Respect and appreciate the power and authority that they hold and make sure that what they're doing is the right thing to do I think also when it comes to the religious thing a lot of people who maybe Are that religion they feel like not only do they need a counselor, but they have to have a counselor that comes from that community So that again, I think is another realm of it has to be this person And so it's another way that people feel like they're not other options [00:28:00] You have to go see this person And i'm pretty sure if I understand right that a lot of people that maybe went to their church and said I have this problem Going on they would say oh you need to go over and see this person who's member of that church or religion or whatever.
And so again, it's how do these people find themselves in such a vulnerable position and how do they fall into this? And they fall into it because these concepts are really pretty commonplace. Accountability. Have healthy relationships, be honest with yourself. Those are like the basis for pretty much any kind of addiction recovery help.
But when you throw the power and the control and the manipulation on top and the distortion coming from the people doing the preaching. Now we have a big problem.
Megan Dudek says, I think I'm saying your name right. I hope I'm saying your name right. My addictive partner is stonewalling for two months. Is this punishment? I think stonewalling is a punishment.
But sometimes people don't realize that's what they're [00:29:00] doing. A lot of times when people are stonewalling, they're telling themselves that they're taking the high road by choosing not to argue or they tell themselves I'm just don't want to hurt your feelings. So I'm just going to shut down.
Some of it can be punishment. Some of it can be manipulation, but a lot of times people don't quite understand that they're doing it and the harm that it's causing. Now, if the person is giving you the silent treatment because they're mad at you and they know they're giving you the silent treatment, then yeah, I would say that's punishment.
It's probably punishment either way but the difference is whether or not the person is consciously aware. That's what they're doing and that it's an unhealthy defense mechanism versus subconsciously, it's like a lot of times people are just telling themselves, I just don't want to hurt your feelings.
I just don't want to start a fight. They may tell themselves that I'm just putting up with this or not, they're usually mad at you about something, and they're shutting you off. They're shutting down either because they don't know how to handle the situation or because they're just very conflict avoidant.
But yeah, is it punishment? Probably. But does the person realize that's [00:30:00] what they're doing? I don't know. Maybe. Let's see. Hey, Mary. Kathy says, thanks for explaining this. I was super confused as to why this mother would do this to her children. Yeah, because this is super far off the ledge.
Even if you're a super strict parent. This is way beyond being a super strict parent. This is not okay in anyone's book. Sherry says I feel the punishments are based in anger almost smacks of revenge. Yeah, absolutely 100 percent the punishments against the spouses and then also the punishments against the children there are other kids, like people in the family that have come out and said, yeah, that happened to me. Other families are coming out and saying, yeah, that happened. And so it appears like it's not just that it happened to the Frankie kids, but it was happening and it was being encouraged as a way to I don't know get your children that great.
It's just completely not only abusive but just countering It just goes against anything [00:31:00] and any book and any research and any counseling program would never tell you to do that ever
We have a comment says we are all addicted to something and just Can't admit that. Probably on some levels, most of us struggle with doing something more than we should, right? Whether it's caffeine, sugar, looking at Instagram, playing video games.
The way you officially diagnose it, addiction isn't really a clinical term. The clinical term is substance use disorder and there's not really a clinical term for like those Behavioral addictions most of us pretty much are on board with that and believe that but it's not officially in the books When it comes to like sex addiction gambling addiction gaming addiction things like that Really what we have is called substance use disorder and that has to do with drugs and alcohol and there's 11 criteria And basically you count how many of those criteria you have so you can have a mild substance use disorder a moderate substance use disorder first a little bit of harm, like maybe you look at social media too much and [00:32:00] your spouse is always on your case because you're looking at it at the dinner table. That might be one criteria of addiction, but without adding a bunch more, you wouldn't quite meet the criteria for like clinical. Right addiction, but I think it's helpful to think like this and to realize hey, we all have issues, right?
Having some Empathy is what heals not punishment empathy Given someone's if someone's really addicted if you give them empathy and space That is what gives them the best chances of overcoming addiction not alienating them Not punishing them not humiliating them all of those things If what you're really trying to do is help someone with an addiction, do the absolute opposite.
Now, sometimes, someone who has an addiction is so dangerous and unsafe, you need to get space from them, right? But that's what you need, and that's okay. But that's different than pushing someone away, basically, as a punishment, in isolation, thinking that is what is going to help them get better. It doesn't.
Here's one. Is it Hannah? [00:33:00] I hope I'm saying that how can help my ex realize he's got a drinking problem? He's been reaching out. That's a good question, but it's a huge question and it sounds to me like what you're saying is your ex probably has some level of denial around the drinking problem.
If you go to my channel, there's a whole playlist on how to get someone out of denial. I don't know that I can give you the answer super quick, but I can give you a hint. I can tell you that it's not by direct confrontation. The more that you say you got a dream problem, you need to deal with this.
The more you go directly like that, the more they'll stay in denial because denial is a defense mechanism that is protecting you from seeing something that But you don't feel like you can see or acknowledge like it's too horrible to acknowledge, right?
And so If you're trying to make it seem worse and worse the person is going to cling harder to that defense mechanism if you can respond with Empathy that makes someone feel safe and they're a lot more likely [00:34:00] to start acknowledging it usually in little bits at first like they may say things like Yeah, I drank too much the other night and then they may start saying things But yeah, I need to cut it back.
And if you can handle that with some good, like reflective listening skills, opening the questions empathy, that's actually how you pull someone out of now. Hannah says, I'm very direct. Hannah, this is going to be a good lesson for you.
Because the more direct you are, the least likely they are to come out of it. As far as trying to get someone to see something that they don't want to see. Because what happens is immediately, even if they know you're right, as an instinct, when we feel called out and confronted and backed into a corner, instinctually, reflexively, we start trying to defend ourselves.
And the more someone. Either in their head thinks it, or says it out loud to you. You don't understand because, I have stress, or I have anxiety, or you don't understand it doesn't even happen that often. It just happens every now and then. Or you don't understand, blah, blah, blah. When they think this thought, which they will think when you confront them, or [00:35:00] they, Or even worse, they will say it to you.
It reinforces that in their own brain, it's a reflex. Think about something you've done in the past. You got called out for. You probably know you're in the wrong, but immediately you're like I that happened because you're not looking at the whole story and you start defending yourself.
That's why you can't come at it directly. It hits these psychological reflexes that actually cause people to dig in further.
Late night says as a spouse. Do I have to wait for my significant other to take accountability for their daily Drinking. This is a good question, and I'm thinking here. I'm trying to give you a good answer here when it comes to Accountability. I do think it's important that it comes from the other In my mind, accountability is just means bringing things above board.
Sometimes when people say the word accountability, they mean you pay the price for what you did. For example, I encourage people who are trying to get sober to set up their own accountability systems. I encourage people to use who have drinking problems to use something called sober link, which is an alcohol [00:36:00] monitoring device.
It works best if you set it up as a preventative not as I'm trying to catch you And so there's a difference in the way that you work with someone to set that up and I always say to my clients I'm not trying to catch you.
What am I gonna do after the fact that you've done relapse? I'm trying to help you make the decision to not do that. And so if you know you're going to be tested or you know some, I'm going to ask you about it, a lot of times that keeps someone from doing it, which is different than someone having to admit after the fact.
It's not that's not ever okay, but it works a lot more effectively if it's preventatively. And I do think someone needs to be on board with that. Otherwise, all you're going to get is more lying, sneaking, manipulating, hiding. which is just going to keep them stuck in addiction even longer. If you use some of the strategies that we talk about, like on the get someone out of denial, how do you talk to someone who has an addiction? There's so many videos on my channel about this. Then you will actually, they will actually step into the ring and work with you. It's going to take a little time.
Most of us get [00:37:00] impatient and we just want them to see the problem. We just want to tell them what the problem is and what they need to do about it. I wish that worked. I've tried it. I still try it occasionally and it still doesn't work. But if you do it this other way, which is slightly slower, it actually takes better.
Jen says, I have been distancing myself a lot lately. If I feel that I'm being treated in a disrespectful way, For example, name calling, yelling and threats. I will choose to remove myself and sleep in the other room.
My addicted loved one says I'm abandoning him and isolating him and making things worse. How can I explain to him that I am not trying to do that? Is there a point in trying to explain? This is another really good question, Jen. And what you're doing, this is a healthy boundary of saying, Hey, if this person is intoxicated, they start acting nasty to me.
I'm just going to separate myself. That is, A beautiful example of a healthy boundary, which is your side of the street. You're not trying to control them. You're not telling them what they can and can't do. You're just saying, hey, I'm gonna go in the other room. It depends on, is this person just saying this to you as like a DARVO [00:38:00] manipulation technique?
If you don't know what DARVO is, you can check that on the channel, but basically it's like where they, Turn it around on you and make you the villain Are they just purposely gaslighting you trying to make you feel like the villain or are they deceiving themselves and convincing themselves of that as a way of feeling sorry for themselves because that is a defense mechanism that People with addictions and all people use, right?
And they're just feeling sorry for themselves. So it's, do they really believe it or are they just trying to make you feel bad? I think that's the difference. I would try to explain it by saying, look, I know I can be really sensitive about this. I can be really reactive to it. And I don't think that's fair to you.
I don't want to get into, saying an ugly thing or trying to control you. So I just try to get some space for myself. That's the way I would try to explain it. It may or may not work. You couldn't be any nicer about it than that, though. I would try that but realize that when someone has an addiction, part of what they do is they'll start fight with you because it makes them feel more justified to continue their bad behavior. And sometimes, no matter what you do, they're going to try to turn it into your fault. At [00:39:00] some point, you may just have to be like, you don't have to say this, but you can think, I'm really sorry you feel that way.
But still hold your boundary because this is a healthy boundary. Mary says, empathy heals. I love that. Most family members think that being kind is being codependent, and I think there is so much more than that. I am empathetic with the addict and also the other family members. It can be difficult.
And the reason why I say empathy heals, it's not even just because I'm a counselor and I'm all like smooshy and woohooey. I'm not, okay. I'm pretty direct actually. Empathy heals because it soothes part of the defensive brain, the emotional part of the brain. It calms it down enough for the thinking part of the brain to work.
There's science behind this. So when you even when your kid is little and they get themselves in a bad situation, maybe something bad happens at school or they make a bad grade and you just express empathy, they actually will activate the learning part of their brain. So there's a strategic scientific reason why you're doing this.
Now, empathy is different than enabling. Enabling is when you're fixing everything [00:40:00] for them. Empathy is just being kind and understanding and a good listener. And there is a difference in the two, right? But being empathetic does not make you codependent. It makes you. Empathetic or in some situations Strategic I like to call it strategic empathy.
It's not so much like you feel sorry for them But you realize that this is the best way to communicate with them In a loving kind way that fits with your values, but also in a way that's the most likely to get them to see the truth ~Punishing someone, yelling at someone, trying to make someone feel shameful is the way to go about it.~
~This gives them the least likely chances of seeing the truth.~
Sandra says getting into true crime. Good to see you. Hey, good to see you too. I know it's like one of those things I have to keep it under control because I'll get addicted with the true crime. I don't know why. I'm just fascinated with it. All right, guys, thank you so much for joining me on this special edition.
I saw some new names here, which was super fun. And I hope to see you guys around again. I go live every Thursday at one, if you want to catch the live videos, and we talk about these kinds of questions and answers and I'll see you soon. Bye everybody.
