Understanding the Psychological Patterns of Alcoholism and Addiction
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[00:00:00] How in the world can they not see that they're addicted how do they not realize that they're an alcoholic how can they possibly be in denial don't they see that this is destroying their life and everyone around them if you've ever asked yourself those questions or wondered that maybe you're wondering it right now you're in luck because today we're going to take a deep dive into the psychology of Addicted slash alcoholic thinking we're going to break it down for you into some stages and phases
so you can identify where either you're at or someone you care about where they're at in their thinking what's going on what kind of psychological defense mechanism is at play and we'll even go a little bit into how do we break through these different addicted thinking defense mechanisms
for those of you who are new here Welcome to Put the Shovel Down I'm Amber Hollingsworth and this YouTube channel is all about helping you understand the [00:01:00] science and psychology of addiction because if you're going to beat your enemy you need to know it very well in fact the only way to beat addiction is to outsmart it
and once you understand how it works on the psychological level you really truly can get and stay five steps ahead of it today is a big part of that conversation understanding these stages and phases of defense mechanism how it is that people continue in what seems to everyone else such an obviously self destructive path
this is how it happens you're not going to find these in a book somewhere you're not going to find these anywhere else but here it comes from my experience 20 plus years of working with people who have addictions in the inpatient setting outpatient setting intensive outpatient sober living all the different kinds of settings
it's a lot of years of working with people and families who have addiction and it's helpful to understand what are those psychological [00:02:00] mechanisms that Actually protect this addiction that keep it in play if you're going to break through it you got to understand what's happening there because most family members loved ones even some counselors and even some like other recovery supports like sponsors they try to get through these denial mechanisms but they try to do it through busting through it almost like breaking the shield down and that
doesn't work in fact the harder you push the more you try to bust through these defense mechanisms the stronger and more reinforced they are what happens is the person starts to cling to these defense mechanisms for dear life and if you can choose other strategies All of which we talk about on this channel they'll actually let go of these defense mechanisms on their own
the key is not pushing so let's take a look at what they are we're going to start from the beginning we're going to look at what happens when someone first starts to experience the unmanageability all the way through until they're[00:03:00] fully stuck in addiction like chemically dependent unmanageability is out of control
they're all the way in now if you're not familiar with that term it's unmanageability it's an old recovery term and it basically just refers to the chaos the drama the problems the difficulties that always ensue when someone has an addiction now of course everyone in life encounters problems and roadblocks and difficulties and some drama every now and then but when you have an addiction your unmanageability your problems and difficulties seem to be
more than other people is definitely disproportionate and that's how you can tell that there's actually addiction going on it's just constant difficulty things that don't work outright unmanageability the very first stage these are not just things that happen exactly if someone just maybe like drinks alcohol I'm talking about
once unmanageability starts to [00:04:00] creep into your life and you notice that it's causing some problems these are the ways that you psychologically build that barrier and allow yourself to ignore and not see all this unmanageability that's over there this seems so clear and obvious to everyone else
I'm going to call this first stage permission giving so these are all the different ways in which we make it okay maybe even make it expected or maybe even convince ourselves that we're entitled to continue down this addictive behavior road whether that's alcohol drugs money whatever it is all the addictions all the things we do that by telling ourselves things like everyone does it classic right
we do that by telling ourselves things like I deserve it anOther variation of that one is I call it grown ass man I'm a grown ass man I'm a grown ass woman I work hard I pay my bills I pay my taxes whatever it is let me do what I want to do I'm [00:05:00] a grown up whatever that's an entitlement idea right
I can do what I want and that kind of thinking which is very common is an entitlement type of thinking there's nothing wrong with it that's another way that we give ourselves permission we're basically normalizing it we're making it okay this is this first strategy of ignoring this unmanageability that seems to be creeping in trying to get our attention
who doesn't have a few drinks with their buddies after work or something like that it's our normalizing process we're trying to make ourselves believe that what we're doing and the way we're doing it and the frequency at which we're doing it all those things is completely normal
And then the normalizing phase can last for years right but Once that unmanageability gets in there it doesn't just go away it just creeps up a little bit more a little bit more a little bit more and as that's happening you'll start to realize okay this is causing some problems
but [00:06:00] seriously all the rest of you people y'all are all overreacting it's not that bad I'm going to call this the minimizing it phase so in this phase of it the person may acknowledge that okay occasionally I drink too much but who doesn't or something may be bad happened during some incident but they somehow describe it or consider it some kind of fluke incident
the whole I got over served or it was New Year's Eve and everyone goes crazy on New Year's Eve he doesn't have a crazy New Year's Eve story it's this minimizing it saying okay yeah that happened but it's not really that big a deal because and this can come out in A number of ways but it's any kind of thing that that minimizes it that takes something bad that happened
this is usually focused around something specifically bad that happened a giant fight a DUI a missed important special family event a firing from a job flunking classes this is usually the [00:07:00] way that the person pushes those bigger Red flag signs out and ignores them this is how denial works
this is what we're talking about all these different psychological mechanisms that come to play that actually makes it difficult for people to see that there's a problem and even though I've been dealing with this stuff for a long time it is still shocking when it seems so obvious and then the person says I don't really know if I'm like a real alcoholic or they may say yeah I got a little too much but I think eventually I'll be able to drink manageably
I just need to get under control I just need to do a 30 day reset I just need to deal with my anxiety differently things like that it's a way of not seeing the problem and it is shocking to me even after all these years how strong and truly people can be in denial and really not see it
you would think I'd get used to it but I don't it's really you don't see that really it almost every week I've run into a situation like that this next phase [00:08:00] is as the unmanageability is continuing to creep in and get a little bigger and a little bigger then the bigger justifications start right
so at first it was normalizing it then it was minimizing it now we're just going to justify it and at this phase it's like the person's maybe acknowledging okay I'm like A heavy drinker or problematic drinker or I smoke too much or whatever it is so they're acknowledging that whatever the thing is probably more than it should be but there's a justification for it
so it's yeah it's a problem but fill in the blank right but it's the only thing that helps me with my anxiety but it's I'm really just self medicating but you know what our reason I do this cause you're always telling me not to and when you tell me not to then I pretty much have to cause you're telling me not to
so that's a way of making it your fault right it's a way of justifying what they can now at this point see is probably problematic right[00:09:00] so it's going from it's not a problem y'all crazy to okay like every that one bad thing happened to okay it's a problem but I can't help it because right
if your addicted loved one is in any of these three stages these are like classic denial kind of things happening here then you're in the right place because the techniques we teach on this channel are specifically designed to get through to people that are in these stages and remember I said no busting through the wall that doesn't work because when you do that they just literally go in on all those defense mechanisms
So you got to go in the side door which is the things that we talk about in our invisible intervention program
all of those motivational techniques that kind of slowly peel the layers back and allow someone to see Hey this is a problem and probably need to deal with it now if the problem continues they are going to move on to this next phase and in this phase I think people start to pretty much [00:10:00] realize that maybe they're an addict or an alcoholic but they deflect it
they're probably not admitting it to you at this point but they're probably in their own head knowing it but they're going to deflect it in a big common way that people deflect it and when I say deflected avoid the conversation is that they'll act angry at you if you bring it up it's like the porcupine effect or the pufferfish they blow up they get spiky they get nasty they get ugly
and they start to train you that if you bring it up if you confront me if you say something's an issue I'm going to act so ugly and so nasty that you're going to regret bringing that up and every time you do that I'm going to act that way I'm going to tell you it's your fault and I'm going to blame all these other things even though maybe secretly inside I'm knowing that it's an issue but I'm trying
painting the people around me that I'm not going to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't need to talk about it and I'll be bringing it up and there's reasons for that the person feels shameful they feel guilty they're probably still holding on to some [00:11:00] little bit of hope that they can turn it around on their own that they can cut it back or something like that
but you're going to know if you're dealing with someone in this stage because you feel nervous about the topic coming up because it's going to turn into a giant fight a giant argument it's going to get ugly this next phase I feel is honestly the hardest thing to deal with most people feel like denial is hard to deal with but I don't personally feel like denial is hard to deal with because denial takes care of itself
the evidence will eventually get big enough that you cannot ignore it like it always deals with itself this last phase is where it's gotten so bad the unmanageability is so big this is usually where people get to after the spouse finally leaves or they lose the job it's just so evident that there's not really any arguing about it anymore
they actually even give up on arguing with you about it and then this last defense mechanism is just to own it this one I think is the most difficult defense mechanism to break through it's and then they say things it's [00:12:00] just who I am you knew it when you married me or why can't you just accept me for me
you hear all these kind of things and this is when someone really does realize that they do have a true alcoholism or addiction but they don't want to hold themselves responsible for fixing it so they're acknowledging it but they're releasing themselves from any responsibility to doing anything about it by just accepting it
sometimes they'll even glorify it in some ways they'll be like Proud of it they'll just own it and wear it as an identity and then they'll push you away as a person and tell you're being mean or cruel or unfair because you won't just accept it
I hear that all the time why can't you just accept me for me and it puts the person on the receiving end of hearing this statement you almost start to wonder and sort of second guess yourself and wonder am I just being critical why can't I just accept it thE reason why you can't just accept it As someone who's in a close relationship with an addicted [00:13:00] loved one is because it's a bad relationship dynamic If you're in a relationship with someone who has an addiction then it's a mostly 90 one way relationship
it's you giving to them and 10 They are able to give back not because they don't care not because they don't love you but because this addiction preoccupation takes up the primary emotional psychological financial resources it's like the game that's going on in their head all the time is chasing this addiction down getting it having it using it hiding it recovering from it getting money for it keeping the supply coming and that takes up so much energy
there's just not much left for anything or anybody else so it's saying why can't you just accept it if you're given 90 and I'm given 10 that's what they're saying to you those of you watching this channel for a long time they don't want you to say that to them because that's not helpful
it may be fair it may be true but it's not helpful okay so I'm telling you these things but I'm not telling it to you because I want you to use this information to call someone out this is one [00:14:00] of those videos that if you have someone in your life who's dealing with one of these kinds of denials
don't send this video to them as a way of trying to break through the denial again you're going to make it worse don't do that but I do want you to understand what's happening and how they're thinking and why I am going to take some questions I always read them and I try to respond whenever possible I do want to make an announcement to the people that are in our membership program
I know not all of you are in a membership program but a lot of you are in 2024 we're going to add something new into the membership called challenges and all day I've been working on our first challenge I'm excited about it it's called the no more Mr bad guy five day challenge
so in January I'm going to take you through this challenge if you're in our membership and I'm going to tell you what to do every day so simple so simple you're going to be like really Amber that's all and it's like a little conversational sort of like strategy kind of technique
I want you to use [00:15:00] one of them each day and by the end of the five days I think you're going to have made very significant progress to getting yourself out of the bad guy role which if you don't already know this is the first steps that you got to do to get someone out of denial these are things that actually are how do you break through these defense mechanisms that are happening right here
Debbie says my person is in the prickly angry phase what is the best response to your picking on me so what do they say when they say you're picking on them first thing I'd ask is are you picking on them I doubt it Debbie because I've seen your name around for a while and I know you know better
so I know you're not picking on them and what I want you to do is Make a what I call process comment Debbie so instead of saying I'm not picking on you then I would say something about what's actually happening in the conversation between you not the content of what they're saying to you but the process
so what you might want to say is I feel like [00:16:00] anytime I bring up my concerns you turn it back on me and make me the bad guy it feels like it's not fair I don't know how to talk to you or bring up my concerns so you're bringing to light bringing to the surface what they're doing which is basically trying to put it off on you
they're trying to use that deflection angry technique starting argument kind of thing so you just want to call out what's happening you can say I feel like you're trying to start an argument I feel like you're making me the bad guy and so you want to talk about what's happening here call out not in a mean way not in a fight starting way but just surface and acknowledge the dynamic that's going on
and that sort of basically is saying yeah I see what you're doing here in a less confrontational kind of way fAr forest sounds says question are there things you can say to help get someone out of a victim mindset or ways to respond to someone when they are stuck in blame shifting victim mode
my husband is past the denial stage and admits he [00:17:00] can't drink anymore but still blames a lot of things on other people and being a victim I have a couple things about that the most important thing is if they're already acknowledged that they have to stop whatever it is then
I would just disregard the other stuff because getting into it with them about whether or not they're a victim and who was the perpetrator and are they just feeling sorry for themselves is beside the point if they're acknowledging that they got to stop just that's what you need and so just
pick up on that piece and come in alignment with them be their team and say all right great like how can I help let's get them to focus on getting them to agree to take some kind of action step versus arguing with them about the victim mode because that's not going to do you any good to do that
and if you can get them sober the longer they're sober usually the more clear they get and the more that kind of takes care of itself you really are not going to talk someone out of being a victim and the more you try to do that the more they see [00:18:00] themselves as a victim of you being mean to them or not understanding them or picking on them
so you have to see your way around that you can either avoid the conversation deflect it agree if there's any little teeny bit of truth in there where you can agree but you want to bypass it because it's like a trap that's set for you and if you step on that trap It's just going to get you sucked back into that bad guy role which isn't very helpful
let's see here
barbara says what to do when my daughter is disrespectful to me when she calls me from the rehab center she's in you know what Barbara when I used to work in an inpatient facility I worked for many years on the adolescent unit and then I worked for Many more years on the adult unit
and I know when we were on the adolescent the phone calls they would make would have to be like right in front of the nurse's station so there would usually be some kind of staff standing there if we heard somebody being nasty we'd just intervene if it was an adolescent
we'd take the phone you know what I think they're not in a good mood to talk they'll call you tomorrow we would [00:19:00] intervene for you but if you're dealing with an adult and have the impression that you are then I would just say hey seems like you're in a bad mood I don't let's not talk right now and I'll get off the phone with them
and you're you're not starting an argument and you're not being mean but you do want to train them that if they want to talk to you they need to talk to you in a certain way and that may come to the point where you don't take their phone calls because if you're taking their phone calls because you feel bad because they only get maybe two calls or they only get five minutes and you feel like you have to do it and you're
engaging in that conversation and they're talking to you like you're a dog you're literally like validating bad behavior this isn't even about drugs and alcohol this is about validating bad behavior and bad boundaries and you don't want to you don't want to deal with that so just don't answer the phone
or if you do and they get like that then just say you know what it seems like it's a rough day let's try again tomorrow just get off the phone don't say you can't talk to me like that because that doesn't work they can but you can decide not to listen and not to engage in the conversation[00:20:00]
now I will say this is that most people in rehab they're in detox especially they're going to be a little bit irritable so I'm not talking about if they're just a little bit grumpy I'm talking about if they're being nasty which I have seen many times Barbara and I think that's what you're saying
don't deal with that absolutely not
Let's see here is there hope for us have you ever seen a couple make it after alcoholism has led to violence when he is sober he is completely different person
yes I have seen many couples make it out of that so I definitely want you to feel hopeful I am not however telling you to Tolerate violence just because someone's an alcoholic hoping that they come out of it So if violence is still happening you need to protect yourself safety comes before anything and everything I ever tell you I tell you all these techniques But all of that goes to the wayside when it comes to safety is always first and then do what's therapeutic but yes it can get better but if it's still happening you need to physically separate you [00:21:00] can be kind if you want to you don't have to say I'm never talking to you again but you need to get some distance because if that's what happens when someone drinks that's what's going to happen when someone drinks no matter how much they apologize for it no matter how bad they feel about it if that's what happens when someone drinks
and they're continuing to drink it will happen again jennifer says at the ownership stage back to work and change drinking habits but stuck at this point and sometimes going backwards tips for getting him back on track I think what you're saying Jennifer is sometimes when people are newly sober they have a little slip ups
sometimes they're having those little slip ups because secretly they think it'll be different this time maybe I can manage it differently if that is what's going on then the key is to let the slip get bad enough again so that they can realize Oh yeah it always ends badly
bUt other times when people slip in early recovery they slip they catch it quick and they realize they're not trying to take back their powerlessness as they would say in 12 step they're not trying to say they're not an addict or alcoholic or something but they're having a [00:22:00] slip
so it depends on if are they sliding back in their denial are they sliding back into minimizing it justifying it permission giving if they are then what you do is you go back to those stages that I talk about you go back to those techniques
so you want to meet them where they're at
gwen says question my niece is now on the street together with her husband is it normal to give up on them I think I don't know what's normal I can say it's natural to eventually run out of empathy and compassion when you've tried and you've prayed and you've begged and you've helped and you've done all the things you can do eventually you're going to need to let go of it and distance yourself emotionally from it and it's not necessarily that you're just giving up and writing them off I'm sure there's still hope in your heart that they get better but it's stepping back from taking such an active role in it because it's wearing you out and exhausting you
that is a natural response and it is something that you do need to come to terms with it's okay when you get to that point to take [00:23:00] your hands off of it and let it try to figure itself out because by the time they get on the street you've done a lot like that's not the first level so I know that everyone's done a lot before that point
jamie Leroux says my boyfriend is a heroin addict he's sweet and giving he's been to rehab nine times and says it doesn't work and won't go again please help that's a really common thing Jamie that it doesn't work here's the thing about going to rehab it's not the same as if you have a cold and the doctor gives you an antibiotic and you swallow the antibiotic and it's supposed to fix you
recovery is an active process it's not you go to rehab and then you come out and you're fixed like you've had some kind of inoculation they teach you how to live clean and sober and what to do if it's not working it's because they're not doing the things they have been taught now there's a lot of different ways of getting in recovery
there's a lot of different philosophies and techniques and it's like religions and if someone said this one doesn't work for me [00:24:00] that's fine find one that does but if he's been to nine rehabs and he's saying it doesn't work it's because he's not working it right he's not doing what they're telling him and teaching him to do because it does work
if you do I hate to say it but the old school saying it works if you work it doing the basics staying away from it putting safety nets in place working your recovery plan keeping away from people places and things probably some very basic things that's not being done yes it would work if they would do
the things
married a long time I won't wear my wedding ring anymore he begged me to put it on and the next weekend he drank more than usual I took it off I just can't anymore am I hurting us by not wearing it I think you're punishing him by not wearing it because it's just a it's a statement is what it is
it's a you're trying to say something to him by not wearing it and I don't think that's a very effective technique you may say that you're setting a boundary but my guess is that you're trying to you're using as a way to [00:25:00] try to get through to him that like you're done with this and you don't want to stay in it
and I understand that's a valid feeling but it the wearing of the wedding ring if you're still together is probably not the hill you want to die on that's not the that's not the boundary that I would set necessarily because it's not that one is just not worth the fight over I don't think
it's a way that he's you're getting yourself in the bad guy role or he's putting you in the bad guy role I just probably wouldn't hold that fight personally
jessica says My boyfriend binge drinks and wants to fight with me every time he gets me to go to places and do things with him take him places I refuse we fight I go we fight in a moving vehicle solution solution is that when he's drinking you're you may have to set the boundary of you don't want to be around him when he's drinking
because it's going to end that way when people have a drinking problem they're very predictable after you've seen them drunk a few times you can know [00:26:00] exactly what they're going to do if they get angry they're going to get angry if they start crying they're going to start crying if they start saying I love you man they're going to say I love you man
it's very predictable it's every single time it is like Groundhog's Day I don't care how much the person promises it's not going to be like that this time I'm not going to do that they probably mean it when they're promising but when they drink they shut off the part of their brain that has the ability to control those things
so it is going to keep happening so don't be fooled by that I know they mean it but it is going to happen if they're going to keep drinking it's going to keep happening
cArolyn says does it make things worse to tell an addict we can't have contact any longer until you're willing to get out of denial or get better
yeah I mean it can make things worse for them but not everything is about them does it help them get out of denial probably not what they do with that is they make you the villain they use it as a redirection as one of those stage fours that we talked about as a deflection you gave up on me
you don't care about me you just shut me [00:27:00] out they make you the villain so does it help to get them out of denial no but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it you just shouldn't do it because you think that it's going to change them if you're doing it because you need to do it to protect yourself because you can't take anymore that's a good reason to do it
a lot of it depends on the intention there but telling someone they need to get out of denial it doesn't quite it doesn't quite work because when people are in denial they don't really realize they're in denial so you may say something like until you get sober instead of arguing with them about whether or not they're alcoholic or addict you can just say sober because that's more clear and to the point or you say until you can get your crap together
bUt I don't think telling them that is going to get them out of denial
polly says Hey Amber I've been watching your videos for a few months now it's changed so much at home but hubby is still not sober there is change talk so what you're saying is you're watching the videos for a while
the relationship's better you're getting some change talk [00:28:00] but he's still drinking or using that's common the things I teach you on this channel doesn't make someone get sober the things I teach you on this channel helps to get people out of denial gets you out of the bad guy role and it helps them to see it faster
If it's been a few months he's probably still going to be in the bargaining phases he or she is still in the bargaining phases so it's like the change talk but it's like I'm going to cut back or I'm going to do a 30 day stop and then they fall back and it's a frustrating process but it's a necessary process and it is an indicator that we are trying to figure it out and that the person is trying to make changes
if things are on track don't be shocked it doesn't just go away all at once there's a lot of two steps forward one step back two steps forward one step back but eventually they get there so hang in there if you're seeing changes it's working and you're doing the right thing
question hey Amber my son just turned 18 he's in college but home for winter break now he started to smoke THC in college and in a matter of two months became fully addicted[00:29:00] he is smoking daily he's unrecognizable he says he wants to quit but he doesn't
how did he fall so low so quickly what can we do
I suppose that someone Could fall into being fully addicted to that in two months but it's not likely my guess is that there's a little bit more to the story maybe there's not but if it is falling into it that quickly then they're probably in still in that stage one permission giving which is I'm young I'm in college
everyone does it like totally making it out not to be that big of a problem and he may be saying I need to quit but in his own mind he's probably still just completely not seeing it as a problem much at all because it's really early on so it usually takes it being a problem for quite a long time before someone even sees it a little bit
so you may have a ways to go I'm really sorry but you are in the right place if you do the things we teach on this channel it will expedite it and it will [00:30:00] go faster but you will have to go through all those things
emily says what do you do when they try to bring up things and they say you're making me angry if someone's getting angry and you're trying to have a conversation with them then no matter how much you want to have that conversation or you feel like it needs to be had when you see that someone is getting angry you're not going to get anywhere
like you have to have if you're going to have an effective conversation it has to be when you're somewhat cool calm and collected and that's on both sides and so if I start pressing a client and I can see that they're starting to tense up they don't usually get angry with me in session like they would with you at home yell or scream or call me names or but you can see them start to close down
and even though they're not expressing anger I can see it then I back up and I may try a different way to come at it or I may wait until they're calmer so you could say Emily you could say hey I see it's a bad time I'm not trying to push you into a bad spot is there a better way to talk about it
or can we talk about it maybe tomorrow just for 5 [00:31:00] minutes so something like that but it's frustrating and on some level they may be using that as a manipulation tactic to get you back up but when you see that someone really is angry no matter how much you want to you need to stop talking because nothing good is going to happen from that point
tom has a question question my husband has been drinking heavily for 10 years he has admitted to the problem but says he will work on it later I have tried everything he drinks from 6 a m when is it time to leave that is a very good question Tom and I have two videos on this channel that specifically address when is it time to leave
and I think trying to think of the exact title I think it's called When to Walk Away I think the thumbnail shows four reasons to walk away so check that video out because it goes more in depth into how do you make this decision I'll give you a quick cheat sheet answer though tom is if you're trying to say I'm going to walk away and hopes that's going to be a wake up call for them
that's not [00:32:00] usually going to work again it just puts you in the vilified role and their drinking usually just goes completely over the top but that may be what you need to happen you may need to leave knowing that it's going to go over the top and then maybe they'll see it but don't think you're going to it's going to leave
and then they're going to be like Oh I'm so sorry I love you please come back that's probably not going to happen I know it's bad but that's just the truth
all right see we have a Facebook viewer on here he says Hey Amber my spouse has been trying to recover from her and abuse for 10 years now we have been together for five years and he was always relapsing every six weeks or maybe one day and then would get off of it again on his own he started to go to therapy a year ago but still continued to lapse every six weeks or so
in November he lapsed again and after me saying I would need to move out to look after myself he decided to go through the Subox Subutex route he's on six milligrams a day with the drug and alcohol is there more
I don't see the rest of it if there's a question[00:33:00] I'm not sure I don't see the rest I think that maybe there's more to that but I can't find it if someone is mostly sober and they're having these little lapses where they're going off of it one day but then getting right back on track if that in and of itself is problematic not just because they're relapsing but because the relapses are actually
not so bad and they're lasting a short period of time because that eventually gives the person the impression that they're managing it in their mind it's more like a cheat day like you might be on a diet every two weeks you have a cheat day in their mind if the lapses are not severe and they're not lasting long that's probably what they're thinking
and that's probably why they keep happening
let's see here I see someone else gave me a super sticker thank you I'm trying to find it so I can put it up here on the screen here's one thank you Fab T I found it here it is do you think that the invisible intervention strategies can work from a distance I live in Ontario and he lives in Michigan a 40 minute drive I think the invisible intervention works best if you live with them
but if you don't [00:34:00] live with them but you have like regular communication like you talk daily or almost daily then I still think you can have a large influence on someone so I definitely think that it can be effective but if it's a situation where you go for long periods of time without talking to the person I'm not it's not that the techniques don't work
they actually do work but it may work so slowly that it'll take a long time you want to have that regular communication so you can build the trust build the rapport positively reinforced it just makes the process happen a lot faster but nonetheless the techniques I teach you in there are helpful healthy techniques good boundaries good ways of interacting with someone who has a problem of any sort
so you're not going to go wrong with it regardless it's going to help the relationship it's going to put you in a more positive light them in a more positive light but as far as getting them sober faster you need to have regular contact with them I think to make it work fast enough to see that kind of progress
lEt's see here
sorry you guys I know I need my moderators I'm having to read the questions I'm finding them for you though
[00:35:00] bC says does being open to the possibility of relapse to the partner benefit the relationship or does it worsen it I think what you're asking me is If your partner is in early recovery being open to the relapses you're not necessarily saying to the person I'm totally okay if you relapse but if they do relapse not going into freak out mode is the best plan just because they get on the rollercoaster doesn't mean you get on the rollercoaster
if they get on it and you stay off they'll get off of it faster so in your own heart and mind realizing that could happen and being prepared for it is the thing to do you're not necessarily telling them that it's totally okay if you relapse but you also don't want to tell them if you use one more time Mr
that's it I'm out don't give the no wiggle room ultimatum kind of thing because What will happen is you'll back yourself into a corner like they'll maybe they're doing good for six months And then they like have a slip up and now you've done told them if they mess up one time you're out like don't So you don't have to say you can never do it again and you don't have to say it's totally fine
you just partner with them and [00:36:00] you will leave it to yourself as a game time decision on how to interact with that or if you can stay or if it's still healthy so hopefully that helps answer that question for you
may says I have been told living with an addict is like living with a narcissist what are your thoughts on that yes it is very much the same there is a giant overlap and what it looks like but it is different basically it's one of the ways to tell the difference is ask yourself what this person was like before the addiction did they have humility could they admit faults could they say when they were wrong or are these behaviors mostly surrounding defense mechanisms related to the addiction
people that have addiction look and act narcissistically because the addiction puts you in that kind of place but you can tell the difference there are two different people when they're on and off substances if you didn't know the person before then find someone that did and ask them some questions and that'll help you figure out
which one you're dealing with am I dealing with an addict I'm dealing with a narcissist am I dealing with somebody [00:37:00] who has both it is an important question to ask because one thing is fixable and one thing is not so you definitely want to know which it is
let's see here here's a question my spouse has prescribed Klonopin while in early recovery now he lies to his psychiatrist and is still prescribed Klonopin over a year later he's been actively drinking a pint of liquor
is this dangerous any way to point this out without being the bad guy overstepping okay so KP you're saying your person is in early recovery but they're lying to their psychiatrist and being given Klonopin and they're actively drinking a pint of liquor and something else I just can't see the rest
first thing I would say is I wouldn't say this person's in early recovery what I think you're saying is maybe they had an addiction with something else maybe like pain pills or something and they've stopped that but now they're still on Klonopin and drinking what it sounds to me like is they've switched addictions
so I would not call if someone's drink taking Klonopins and they're lying to get the clonopins and they're [00:38:00] drinking a pint a day I don't know that I would call that recovery so that's part of the issue your question is can you point that out or say something without overstepping it's going to be very difficult to do that
and I'm not sure if you're saying pointed out to the person or pointed out to the psychiatrist I don't know if the psychiatrist some people are different if but if you call a psychiatrist and tell them and then that psychiatrist tells your loved one or your spouse that you called oh my gosh you have just stepped in it so big like they'll just never get over it
they'll just hold that over your head forever so if there's a chance in your mind that you would call and then they would tell the person which is a strong possibility then I would not do that
CB says how do you discuss the problem when the person will never discuss it how can we get them to discuss the issue they know they have it but they hate to discuss it the first thing you do is Whatever level of discussing that does happen you want to make sure it's not a painful process
so you want to keep it casual you want to keep it light and you want to keep it short [00:39:00] so what you're doing is you're training them this doesn't have to be horrible because no one likes to discuss it but if you make it where it's not like you're trying to talk about it all the time it's not like you're pushing the conversation too far
a lot of times they'll get more comfortable and they will share a little bit with you about it the other thing I would say is you don't have to discuss it if they're saying I know I got a problem I need to do something you don't have to discuss it in depth you can say okay I'm going to make you a counselor appointment would you rather see a man or a woman
ask them a question make the appointment you don't have to talk about it but see if you can get them to take an action step and sometimes they'll talk about it more after they get clean or maybe they're too shameful they're too embarrassed they're afraid they'll start an argument all right everybody we are almost out of time Thank you so much
