Transforming Relationships: Empowering Your Loved One Through Addiction Recovery
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[00:00:00] Hey, everybody, . Amber is on a cruise. I am stepping in for her today. For those of you who checked in to see Amber, sorry, you're going to have to deal with me. But today I want to talk about something before we get to any questions, which I think is really going to be helpful.
And I'm going to try to connect it to something else. That , we've been having a ton of questions and confusion on this. What I want to talk about, and I talked about this very briefly , and it's this triangle that to me is the opposite of the drama triangle and or certainly.
Super helpful in staying out of the bad guy role. And I made this triangle up. So hopefully, it doesn't have a name, but I call it the empathy validate and empower triangle. And I talked about this and a lot of people have found it helpful, but I think it's a little confusing and I want to link it to boundaries as well, which is super confusing to a lot of people.
So first of all, when do we use this triangle? Empathy, validate, empower. I think you should use this triangle [00:01:00] 90 percent of all conversations that you ever have to be super honest because what this triangle does is it allows you to not get sucked into other people's tiny, medium, larger or huge problems.
And it keeps you on your side of the street. Which definitely helps keep you out of the bad guy role. So let me give you an example of this tiny little example. So my husband said the other day, man, I need to get new tires. There's something wrong with the back tire and I've got to get new tires. And I said, man that's a bummer.
I hate that. Just cars are so expensive. And I know it's a pain to have to go to the tire shop, but you'll figure out when to go. And you'll make that happen on your time. Okay. That's that. He said, yeah, you're right. So conversation does not get negative. I don't say what's wrong with your tires?
And let him be mad that I'm questioning his tires. I don't say how much money are you going to spend on the tires? And then get embroiled into that conversation. I merely empathize, validate, and empower. I go about my merry way. I don't have to give Frank's tire another thought because I didn't get sucked into the [00:02:00] conversation.
It doesn't take me down. It doesn't waste any of my time. It doesn't do anything yet. I was super kind and polite and thoughtful in my conversation with him. So when to me, this is a good example of how to use it in our everyday lives. As far as how to use it with, we're talking about our loved one.
If they're saying something like yeah I wasn't going to smoke weed, but John brought it to the party and Steve bullied me. And I smoked the weed and I just, I feel bad. I'm just like, you know what? I hate it when people bully me. I told you, I get that, and next time you'll have a better response or you'll know what to do with those guys.
Again, I'm not. I'm not resolving the problem about the weed. I'm not trying to fix it. I'm not going into the lecture mode about going to parties or smoking weed or doing anything in general that put him into the situation where he would have to be bullied into getting to smoking the weed. I stay out of that and that keeps me out of the bad guy role.
So I'm sure you guys can think of lots of examples of how that would work for you. People just sometimes just want to [00:03:00] be heard. That's all they want. You say, gosh, I heard you. That's sucks, but you'll figure it out. But here's where I want to connect this from today. This triangle, this empathize, validate, empower triangle keeps us connected to knowing what our boundaries are, what they are, why we have them and we don't need to have a boundary on anything if we feel whole enough.
So a boundary is to a boundary is something that we hold to keep us feeling good. All right, you don't have to know what your boundaries are. You don't have to announce your boundaries. You don't have to do anything. Boundaries are not rules or expectations or desires from someone else. If someone at lunch brought a bunch of Pickled eggs.
Nobody at lunch would, but if someone brought a bunch of pickled eggs and I'm sitting there realizing I cannot stand the smell of these pickled eggs, like these things are gross me out. My boundary at that point could just be to get up and walk away and say, Hey, I'm going to go to my office. I'm going to do some work.
I don't need to know [00:04:00] that I have a boundary of anti pickled eggs in order to hold the boundary. I also don't have to announce, Hey, if anyone brings pickled eggs, I'm walking out of way, but I certainly don't have a rule that no one can bring pickled eggs. to the lunchroom at Hope for Families. So there's a, there's a difference in a boundary and a rule.
You guys have to figure out with your spouses, your children, your partners, how do you feel with their addiction? And we, yesterday in the membership call, we had a ton of conversation around, I put this boundary down that they have to be sober to live in my house, and now I've caught them using twice, Now, what do I do?
And so to me this conversation, this triangle would be a really nice way for you guys to connect that to holding a boundary or setting a boundary, which would be, Hey, I know we had a conversation when you first came back that we were very not comfortable with you using in our house yet.
We've seen you using a couple of times. I know it's difficult to give up. I know it's difficult To end this problem that you have, but, and I see that you're [00:05:00] trying and I see that you're working and you're going to meetings or you're going to your job and you're doing a good job, but you're going to have to figure out which way do you want to go?
Do you want to continue to live here? Then, then we recommend you stop. If you don't then I guess you don't need to worry about stopping. So that is in a way is an empathy validating and empowering conversation. It's also a way for you to kick out. Nudge your boundary that you put down back over onto them a little bit to see what they're going to do with it without actually having to have this big heavy conversation about you used we told you could live here.
You got to be out by tomorrow at 5 o'clock, especially because none of these people on the calls really wanted. to hold those boundaries. They really were super uncomfortable with now, what do I do? I've made this big ultimatum. It's been crossed, it's been broken, and I'm in a stuck place. I say this all the time.
Do not get sucked into Having to have a boundary. Do not get off that nice [00:06:00] empathy, validating, empowering triangle unless you do not feel good about the situation that you are in. And you just say, Hey, we noticed that you're continuing to use. We'd like for you to leave. You do not have to initiate the conversation with, Hey, if you use, you can't live here because then that's box you into the same corner that all these women were in yesterday.
It just happened to be a bunch of women yesterday that had the problem. They push themselves into the corner by having this boundary, by getting off of this triangle and getting back onto the drama triangle. This is very important. We, the goal here in this triangle and in a boundary is do I feel whole?
Do I feel safe? Do I feel good in my situation? Whether it's pickled eggs at the lunch table or addiction in my home, do I feel good? Is the same root. Then, if you know what it is, I need to feel good, then you don't have to have these big ultimatum conversations. [00:07:00] When you don't feel good, you simply say this situation needs to change.
I no longer am feeling good. And I think if we can practice this with this empathy validating empowerment, I guess I was called the empathy triangle. If we can. Sort of practice using this. I think it might help those of you who are really on the struggle bus with how to have a boundary and hold it.
It might help you baby step your way toward knowing, do I really need to state my boundary? Do I even know what my boundary is? Do I feel okay enough in the moment that I don't need to have a boundary? Or as I'm moving away from feeling, okay, do I feel a little bit empowered myself? To have a boundary or to hold something and gosh, I just thought of this while I was talking, but if we can even use the triangle on ourselves gosh, I feel bad.
My child's living here and I love my child dearly. And I know he's. Trying at some degree to get better. And I sure totally recognize that I don't want him to be on the street. What do I want to do with all that? So I [00:08:00] can empathize with myself and validate that my feelings as well as what I believe my loved one to be trying to do.
And then I can decide what empowerment do I want to have? Maybe nothing right now. Maybe I don't feel, maybe I feel holy enough that I will just. Stay status quo for right now, then nothing has to change. I think the problem we're making is everyone thinks they have to have all these rules in place before they let their loved ones back into their home.
And this example, but there are rules they can't enforce and the rules, they don't know what to do with. When they're broken. So don't have any rules. It's we talk about this all the time. Don't have rules. Don't do contract. You just know when I don't like this. This doesn't feel good to me at all. Hope for families.
We don't have any rules. We don't there are no rules to work here except have each other's back. And be kind. That's, those are our rules literally to work here. If Bree ate my pickles every single day, when I bring pickles to go with my sandwich, if she ate them every single day, there's no rule, [00:09:00] okay? No rule on pickles in this office.
But if she ate my pickles every single day and I found it, I was like, you know what? I get it. Like Bree's, she works hard and she's here before I am. And she's usually here until after I am and she makes our lives happen. I get it. She's hungry. She likes pickles. She actually hates pickles. But in this example, we'll pretend.
Pickles are not that expensive. I can do without my pickles. I'm okay. Okay, there's one scenario. I can have that same empathy triangle for Bree on the pickles and have the same conversation with myself on the pickles. Or I can say, You know what? I was really looking forward to that pickle today.
Like I made the whole sandwich around having a bite of pickle in between every single bite. And I'm a little irritated. Then I could say, Hey Bree, I'm going to start bringing three pickles and you can have one of them, but could you leave the other two for me? Now that's a rule or a request, a desire that I can't enforce because she could certainly plow through all the three pickles while I'm in my 10, 30, 11, 30 sessions.
Or I could say if you eat my pickles again, I'm quitting. And then, I back myself into the corner, if she, I don't [00:10:00] know, I don't, particular Thursday just has a hangover for pickles and eats my pickles and then leaves me a love note that says, Hey man, Campbell, I hate it for you, but I ate your pickles, but I'm going to replace them tomorrow.
But I've already said, if you eat my pickles, I'm quitting. So this is a good example, dumb, but good example of when you don't want to have a boundary, when you don't have to denounce your boundary, and don't have a boundary, you're not going to hold because there's no way I'm quitting over pickles. Don't tell anyone that works here, but there's no way I'm quitting, no matter what they do to me.
I'm not quitting. This is the greatest job ever. But I don't want to back myself into a corner where I would force myself to quit over anything. So try to connect this empathy, validate, empower triangle to yourself to begin to use it to breadcrumb yourself toward realizing Do I need a boundary? Why am I having a boundary?
Do I have to have a boundary? And if I do, what is that boundary? [00:11:00] And can I actually bring myself to enforce this boundary that I think I want to put down? Try to use this triangle to slide that way and see if it's something you really care about. Can help you connect the two concepts. So let me see what questions
all right, Bailey, what do I do if my loved one says she wants to stop drinking one day and then falls off the wagon 2 to 3 days later. It's never ending cycle of starting over going on 3 years now. That's classic bargaining. Obviously, Bailey. It's either manipulation and she just saying that is doesn't plan to stop drinking and can go a couple of days without or it's just bargaining and she's trying her best.
I think it's an example of you need to this is a perfect example of this. You need to sign. How do you feel? How do you feel living in the situation with this person who has a drinking pattern of every two to three days they drink? Is that a principle you don't like it? Is it because she's completely horribly mean to you when she drinks?
Is it because you are opposed to alcohol in general, like, why do you [00:12:00] not feel okay if you don't in fact feel okay in the situation and then decide what boundary do I want to have on this? Because you're, there's nothing you're going to do to change her pattern unless you do something to change your pattern in that pattern.
I think you have to decide. Am I okay in this enough to tolerate it for another year or so? I think it would also depend on what the partner's talk is during damn it, I fell off the wagon again. I just don't know what to do about this. If that's the case, then you could use the empathy triangle with them and say, that must suck.
That's a pretty, pretty pervasive pattern to keep happening over and over again. I imagine that makes you feel shameful and a little out of control. I'm wondering if you would be interested in seeing what you could do to empower yourself more on that. Like you could maybe talk to someone in aa.
You could find a counselor, you could talk to someone who's been through it. You could join a group to see what other people do. There's some, there's lots of stuff you can figure out to do if you in fact don't like the pattern, but you have to wait for the person to bring that to you first.
Otherwise, you just have to decide how you want to be. So hope that helped. [00:13:00] Helena, I'm a spouse of a meth addict. We've been together 15 years. He did multiple intensive court order. Rehabs had sober seasons. Now now we in the hole. What are your thoughts on marijuana used to get off ice slippery slope?
I'm going to go with that. Um, the problem is that's just to me a form of bargaining. I won't use this substance. I'll use this substance and for a little bit. That's often very successful, but long term, it's really not successful because the brain doesn't recognize the difference between meth dopamine, the dopamine that comes with meth and the dopamine that comes with weed, but there's a bowl of more.
Dopamine that comes with meth than with weed. So eventually the problem comes down to there's not enough weed in the world to satisfy all the meth neuroceptors that were created during the Matthews and so most people who do this bargaining end up right back at their drug of choice. Over time, it can be days, weeks, or even a month or so, but it's usually not a terribly long period of time because all those external [00:14:00] receptors want the meth and they're irritated.
They can be satisfied for a minute with the weed, but not long term. It's if I really want pizza for dinner. I really want pizza. I've thought about it all day. I know exactly what vegetables are going to be on it. I know exactly what, Ooh, I'm so excited. But then my husband's I didn't really want to eat pizza, but I get that you want something salty.
And so why don't we put some ketchup on some Fritos? Maybe that could satisfy me for five minutes, but ultimately I'm going to be like, this is dumb. This is stupid. I'm going to get the pizza. It's the same concept. I really frankly wanted to have dessert last night, but I decided to have carrots and hummus.
I'm going to tell you, I got two carrots and two dips of hummus into it before I had a cookie because I was just like, this is not what I wanted. Same sort of thing happens in the brain. Dopamine is dopamine. So I don't recommend it.
Sarah. My husband only opens up when he is drunk. I'm empathetic and I validate, but how do I know if he even remembers what we talked about? The only time he's sober is when I'm around on Sunday until [00:15:00] 1 p. m. That's a solid point unless you count the mornings before he goes to work. Yeah, that's the problem with alcoholics is you don't know what they remember and I don't really recommend Having a big old deep, hairy conversation with someone who's drinking because you're going to be resentful in the morning when they're completely oblivious and acting like you talked about dog treats last night when you really talked about something really powerful.
I think I might try to have the conversations that you want to have when he's drunk. That you want to have Sundays before one, when he's opening up with you on the nights that you're not sure he's going to remember. I would stick to that. I would just stick to that triangle because you're not going to get into the bad guy role.
If he remembers it, you didn't see anything damaging. If he doesn't remember it, you didn't waste any calories trying to resolve this problem. But you were kind, empathetic, and you listened. So he has nothing negative to say about you. You also though. So going back to what we talked about at the very beginning is you could do that for, I don't know, five minutes, 15 minutes, an hour.
And as you notice, I don't [00:16:00] feel good in this. I don't feel happy. I don't want to do this. I'm getting out of my comfort zone here. Then you can have the boundary and say, you know what? This has been real, but I'm exhausted. I'm going to go to bed. I'll see you in the morning. Kiss and good night. Go to bed.
Don't kiss him. Good night. Go to bed. But that's a really good thing for you to stay on that formula. But no, do I want to engage in this anymore? How do I feel right now? And then you just pick up and go, which is you holding your boundary. You don't say, yeah, I'll talk to you for an hour and 10 minutes, but then I'm going to bed because this conversation is not going to go anywhere.
You don't want to announce that boundary because you're not really sure it's going to be an hour and 10 minutes, first of all. And second of all, it's just going to start a fight. So you just, As you're going through the process, you learn, Oh, now is when I want to have a boundary. So that's a good example of that.
Vicki, hello from South Dakota. Hello. My loved ones sent me a message this morning asking if we could talk today. In the past, this means she will ask for money. This topic is perfect for me today. Thank you. You're very [00:17:00] welcome. Yeah. When anyone says, Can we talk today? It puts us all on guard, right?
One time years ago, Amber said, Hey, I need to talk to you, but I need to see you before you leave today. And I spent the whole day frantically like doing my inventory. If I did something wrong, are my client notes up to date? Does anybody going to complain about me? What? Oh my God, did I not water the plants?
And I'm going through it at the very end of the day. All she wanted to say was, Hey, you got some great positive feedback from all of our clients. I just wanted to show you the reviews. So I was like, Could you not have just said that this morning instead of we need to talk. So be prepared. But again, you get to hold a boundary of what, as I'm going through this conversation, does it feel good to do it?
Does it feel good not to do it? And then just go with it kindly and empathetically.
Neon bean, that's fun. What if I don't like knowing they're using, but love them and don't want to leave, they have no interest in stopping. That's a huge question. And it's actually a really common question with a lot of our clients. If you don't want to leave, you don't want to leave and that's okay.
They're [00:18:00] using must not bother you enough if you don't want to leave. And so this is the example of, the pickles. If it doesn't bother you, then don't, you don't need to talk about the pickles. If you're happy in the relationship enough that you still love them and you want to spend time with them and they're still showing up enough for you to feel that way, then is there using really a huge problem?
And I know that sounds weird coming from someone from an addiction counseling perspective is it that bad they're using, but just so much things that are socially acceptable, like drinking, if you live with someone who drinks, but They drink a glass of wine here or there or cold beer here or there or Genotonic, but they're funny and kind and lovely and do the laundry and are fun to sit with and play games with and go on trips with the, you don't care.
No one ever talks about that, right? But if they, if that slides to the dark side and none of that's possible or happening or fun, then that person would be the spouse or partner would be able to say, yeah, I don't like this anymore. It's the same thing. You aren't there. So it's okay. There's no right or wrong.
If you still feel [00:19:00] whole, it's good.
Jill, my child's father is currently an alcoholic who hides it. I've caught it and tracked it for at least six months. We have a two year old and I have concerns about when I'm at work. Yeah, you're in bad space. Oh, I work second shift. I don't want to quit my job, but I have safety concerns. We did live together, but he's moved to his house.
Same subdivision, when I found out about his heroin past.
Yeah, I think, first of all, safety concerns are is not quit drinking. I'm sorry. More information is dripping in. I'm not sure what to do. We do not have a court order. Right now, by default, I have full custody. Okay, so I think with safety with a child, a 2 year old child is not old enough to tell you this is what dad's doing.
I don't feel good like a 12 year old is so you're going to have to just do what makes you feel safe and what makes you feel whole in this, which is to protect your child and therefore yourself. And do that without any real thought to how they feel or what the ramifications are. But I might start pursuing like the legal side so that you have [00:20:00] that power in your pocket.
If he pulls the card, that would need for you to need that power. Um. When people are in complete and utter denial about their problem, and there's they're hiding, and then they're lying to themselves and lying to everyone else. You don't have any ability to just decide. Do I want to live like this or not?
Because they're not going to admit it. You're not going to have a good conversation with them. They're nowhere near any stage of change. They're completely in. In the bargaining denial process. So I would just do what you can for your child to be safe and you to feel good.
Sarah says, I can so relate to the confession of negative fear. Why do we do that? I think her question is, why do we say, hey, we need to talk. Sometimes I think we do it. I don't do it after that experience with Amber. I really try not to say it unless I will say, hey, I want to talk to you about.
The course we're getting ready to develop. I might say that to Kim Hey, I need to buy seven minutes of your time at lunch to talk about this thing. I might give her a heads up. Just like I guarantee that I get that time I need with [00:21:00] her. I might do it to see if someone will stay late after work so I can talk to them about a specific thing.
But I say, Hey, I need to treat my team with you. We're both done at six 30. I'm going to loiter. If you're running a few minutes late, can we chat? But that's a definite heads up. So I don't know why we do it the other way, except I just don't think we'd stop to think about what the other person feels like.
And we just say it cause it's quick, easy and it's happens all the time. But it's like having a family meeting. I don't, I didn't like family meetings either. When my dad said we're having a family meeting tonight. I'd be like, Oh, this is not going to be fun. He said, Hey, we're having a family meeting to talk about what we're moving to Berlin or Moscow.
I'd be like, Oh, okay, great. That's a family meeting I want to go to. But if it was, Hey, we're having family meetings because we have some rules that are being broken and we need to chap some children's fannies. So here's how they went in my house. So I don't know. Just be aware of that. I think.
All right. Okay. My 25 year old son quit drinking two months ago. My husband still drinks in his presence. Indeed. Have you had that nice empathy conversation with [00:22:00] your husband to say, to ask him, If he thinks that's helpful or why he does that and his answer might be, it's my house and I want to have a drink in my house and I'm not going to cater to my, my, what I do in my own home, just because our kid doesn't want to drink.
I don't know, does your child actually also said, hey, dad, I know that's your house, but I'm really trying not to drink. It would help me tremendously if you did not drink around me. That might be something that your son could, or your child could say to your spouse. The only thing you could do would be have that real empathetic conversation of this makes me feel a little nervous when you do that.
And I don't like to feel nervous. So I'm wondering if we could do something different. You could try something like that, but my guess is it's the, this is my house and I'm going to do what I want to mentality, which I hear. A lot when we're talking about kids in early recovery that live with adult kids who live with their parents.
So my guess is it's that Joelle suggest responses to the very well meaning, but exhausting friends and family who ask why we aren't kidnapping our loved one [00:23:00] and locking her up for treatment. The, have you tried this question? God, I totally get that. People they're well meaning, they don't know.
And they always give us advice. That sounds just like that. And I would say something like. Hey, we talked to hope for families and they're super expensive. So I'm going to go with their opinion, or we thank you for your advice. We're doing it in a lot of investigative reading on this and we feel good with the decisions we're making something to thank them and shut it down would be kind of response to that. I remember going through this in the day and it was amazing. What people said, amazing, hurtful, unkind, not helpful, judgmental, false would be the way I would generalize what most people say. So I just shut it down. So thank you for your input, we're going to go with what.
But what Amber's telling us, or thank you for your input. This is what's highly recommended by professionals. That's what we're going to do. But I appreciate your, the time you took to come up with that solution for us. Shut it down. Don't argue with it. Just let them know you're not interested in pursuing the conversation, nor are you [00:24:00] going to implement their plan.
But again, do it empathetically. I thank you for your input. I know that took you some time to think of that. I know you're concerned. I get that was hard for you to bring up. And. But take the empowerment back to yourself. All right. Married a long time. How can we be empathetic and have the boundaries at the same time?
They want us to listen to their problem. And then I get triggered. And how do we draw that line? When you are triggered, that's your warning bell that now you need to have the boundaries and say, I have to go somewhere else. This conversation's over. I am out of time to talk about this any further. If you are getting triggered, that is God's little way of saying Hey, you need to have a boundary.
Be thinking about what that is. Is it just simply departing? Is it, I would depart. But it could be whatever you want to do, but That's your warning bell, is when you start to feel that I don't like this doesn't make me feel whole, this doesn't make me feel safe, and I'm going to either say something I regret, I'm going to say the wrong thing, or I'm going to [00:25:00] get mad because I don't want to do this anymore.
That's when you stop. Okay, it's go back to the pickle example. Go back to the pickled egg example. As dumb as they are, those are the, you listen for your own cues of when I'm no longer comfortable in this situation. Hence, I will do something different, which is hold the boundary. Okay, a boundary is I no longer will say yes to something.
I no longer will tolerate something. I no longer will do it. I personally am no longer interested in pursuing whatever is happening. Okay, there's that's what a boundary is and that trigger is your warning bell to think of it quickly and hold it.
All right. So Eric said he just purchased the invisible intervention. How quickly should I move through this program?
I see at the ends of part one, there are several weeks of building a relationship happiness scale. You know what, Eric, there's no real answer to this. Like we don't have a guidebook that says, This is our eight to nine weeks is our answer. But a lot of people will work through it until they [00:26:00] either are like, I'm stuck or I'm confused.
And then they'll use that time to call and get a session with one of us to am I learning this correctly? Am I holding this? Am I applying this correctly? Or what am I missing? So if you can move through it at whatever pace you're comfortable with and it's all making sense with you and you're implementing it and getting good results, then keep going.
So it's not so much a question of time. It's a question of. of continuation versus, and how quickly should I read this, should I continue, or regroup, then group, then go back in and do it some more, and then regroup. But, to me, you paid for it, I would do it. And see what you can gain as quickly as possible because there's a lot of awesome information in the invisible intervention.
And it's super helpful. If nothing else, just to make you feel better about your communication style and the way you're interacting with your loved 1. but again, do not hesitate. If you get stuck to call and book a session or an email consult, or if you remember, pop into the lab question and ask a question to [00:27:00] tweak your progress on that. That cause that's a ton of information and I don't think even I could go through it and not be a little confused at some point or another about what to do in my very specific situation and needs. All right, guys, I hope this was helpful. I really think this, if you will start to use this thing, start to use this triangle in every situation you can.
It's way outside of addiction. First of all, it's going to become real automatic nature. And second of all, it's going to help you really link. Do I need to have a boundary at all? Which I think will be half the battle.
