The Key to Helping Your Alcoholic Spouse Understand Your Perspective
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[00:00:00] How do I get my spouse to understand how it makes me feel when they stay out until two o'clock in the morning this was a comment I recently read and I did have an immediate answer flash in my head but I didn't answer this question because The immediate answer that flashed in my head
I knew was if I just wrote it super direct It was gonna sound super snarky and this is a this was a fella concerned about his wife who was already enough pain He didn't need me to be snarky but I could have said it without being snarky But then it would have been like an entire session which you can't do in the comment section But what I could do is talk about it to you guys because I bet there's a lot of you who have a very similar problem
you have a spouse Who has an addiction to something doesn't matter what and it's as if your feelings don't matter No matter how much you try to communicate it when you've been mad and said it you've been nice and said it you've begged and pleaded And threatened you've done all the things and they just don't even seem to care about how [00:01:00] all of their behaviors impact you so that's what we're going to talk about All right y'all ready for the snarky answer the snarky answer is yeah don't but don't worry I am gonna solve this problem for you But you're the that question was really the wrong question because the question is framed
how do I get my wife it was wife in the question how do I get my wife to understand how I feel about her staying out two o'clock in the morning that's not really what The person was really wanting right what the person really wants is for the wife to stop staying out till two o'clock in the morning and The misconception here is that if I can get my wife to understand how I feel about it then she would stop But that is inaccurate
we will talk about why that is is it because the wife is an evil horrible person who never did care about this person and just married him to take advantage of him in the first place maybe but not necessarily when someone Has an addiction you're not playing on the [00:02:00] same Field as you were initially before that addiction the brain doesn't work the same way and if you're trying to get through to someone who has an addiction by expressing your feelings and crying and Whining and begging and threatening
it's the least effective thing that you can do in fact expressing your feelings about it is Pretty much ineffective except under one circumstance so keep listening I'll tell you what that one circumstance is What you really want is for them to stop the daggone hurtful behaviors right
and in order to get them to stop the daggone hurtful behaviors you got to get them to address their Addiction and in order to get them to do that it's not going to be because of your feelings it is going to be because of their feelings so the question a better question might be how do I get my alcoholic spouse my addict spouse partner child whoever to understand their feelings
because deep down [00:03:00] inside They're miserable but they don't see a better solution so it's not about trying to get someone to see your perspective it's about trying to get someone to see their perspective much more clearly because they're not seeing the situation clearly they're trapped somehow in a cycle and whatever
behavior substance whatever it is initially solved some kind of problem for them but has gotten to the point that the addict behavior substance whatever it is now worsening the original problem but it is the only time they get any relief from whatever it is they're running from and I'm not necessarily saying that they have like super childhood trauma
so I'm just saying like the addiction itself creates a wound and anxiety a difficulty that they then need relief from so it fulfills itself here and so they don't see a very easy way out and they cling on to it Like it's their lifeline because it is their lifeline and so the more you directly come [00:04:00] out I'm trying to let go of it in my mind It's almost like seeing like a little kid with like their binky like they're like blanky that they're holding on to which is like they've held on to it way too long
it's like nasty and gross It has like plants growing off of it or something and you're like I think it's time to let go but if you try to go and snatch it up it's not gonna go well right you have to convince the person that life will be better without it and there are some ways to do that and the ways that you do that is to create a safe enough environment for them to get real honest with themselves because the work that they're going to have to do the picture they're going to have to look at isn't pleasant
they're going to have to really look at some things about themselves that they don't like they don't want to look at it and it's an ugly picture and they're ashamed of and we all have things like that and it's you're asking them to not only just look at these things but acknowledge these things and then dig out of this ginormous hole that they've built for themselves
all while they're in mega trouble and everyone around them is mad at them [00:05:00] and yelling at them and screaming at them and doesn't trust them so it's a lot of work ahead and in order to get somebody in a position where they're going to be willing to do that Work the best thing you can do is soften it up for them a little bit Make it slightly more appealing to come out of this I'll make it slightly more appealing to give up the binky if you give this binky You'll have this over here instead make the offer appealing If the if I'm not even gonna say if because almost always not always but almost always the situation is You as the family member have been so mad at them for so long
not only do they not care how you feel They're probably in a position they may not say this Some of them will say it some of them won't but they've most of them think it is that They're staying out 2 in the morning just to make you upset on purpose so trying to express to them how you feel about It's not gonna help your case any because Whether i'm not saying that perspective is accurate but i'm saying that is what their perspective is You're trying to control me
you're always negative I'm never good enough for [00:06:00] you this is their storyline right like you're just want to keep me in the house you're just jealous you're just controlling this would be the storyline And so it's like why in this person's mind It's like I don't care about your feelings because you've been so mad at me for so long And in their mind you haven't treated them well in so long
I'm not saying that you're a bad person I'm just trying to help you understand the way they're viewing it okay so it's almost like why would they care now I told you earlier that I would tell you there is one situation where you can make them care And in order to do that you have to build The trust and credibility that I'm always talking about
once you repair that relationship with your loved one once you build that trust back and the way you build that trust back is to help them understand that you understand and you don't get that by talking about your feelings you get that by talking about their feelings because if you can get them to communicate with you what's really going on inside and you can [00:07:00] accurately mirror label reflect these things back to them they're gonna feel like wow you really get me
and then if you throw some positive reinforcement sprinkle some of that in there every now and then they're gonna like being around you a little more because they're gonna want some more of that positive reinforcement because It's probably the only place other than the addiction where they get a little dopamine little good brain chemicals going on And so once you have this combination where you have they want to be around you because they trust you
they feel like you understand them They feel validated by you Guess what then they care what you think and care and what you think is probably more important than caring how you feel because it's what you think about this the where the solution to the problem is a lot of times and so you have to get a person to build enough credibility so that when you offer a solution to someone they believe you they
they trust you they feel like yes that does sound like a good solution because they really understand my situation they've taken [00:08:00] into account all my like specific things and you can only do that over time by building that trust and credibility by using the skills that we teach you right here on this channel by using the skills definitely that we teach in the invisible intervention
it's like putting in the time building the relationship it is exactly 100 000 percent exactly what counselors do we don't have a superpower that's the only thing we got is only superpower we got is to make someone feel heard and understood right it's easy to see what someone's problem is from the outside
you don't have to be trained clinical professional for that anybody can do that anybody can look at someone else's problem and see what the problem is and what the solution is but it's not easy to get another person to see what their problem is and get them willing to pursue the solution you have to do these other things that we teach you in the Invisible Intervention on this Class that I talk about on these lives every Thursday to make that happen
that's what that's the only [00:09:00] thing we do people always ask me like don't you worry these these addicts and these alcoholics they're going to lie to you they're going to this they're going to that and I'm like not really for one usually when my other counselor is talking to the family member so I'm usually getting the truth dripped in
so I usually know already but two it's not up to me to call out every single lie that's not really my job my job is to help them feel heard and understood now it is my job to know what's really going on big picture wise counselors can get themselves in big trouble when they don't
when they like literally don't know what's going on big picture wise is it important that I know every single thing that they did every lie that they told every action over the week no not really I do have to know what direction to lead this person in but I would never start to lead a person in that direction until they knew that I knew they knew that I understand them and all the uniqueness about their situation
once you get to a point where you're trying to offer a solution to someone like let's say you're trying to get them to go to treatment if you've listened to them long enough and you can express empathy for the situation and you can [00:10:00] say I know you have to still be able to check your emails for work because you're I wouldn't say it like this but like fancy executive and you can't just miss work so You know I'm going to so I've found you a program that does that
so listen to what they have to say or at least line up something that is matches with who they are that's going to make it more appealing make it more appealing to come out of the deep dark shell the hole that they're in not less appealing and that's really hard because your emotions are going crazy
you got to get strategic not emotional
this happens less often than it used to happen but it still happens a lot of times people will work forever to get months years sometimes to get their person to come talk to a counselor and sometimes that happens with you guys you work you do other things you get your person to come like talk to me or it doesn't have to be me
this could be anyone but the ones that come talk to me and if you're still at home yelling screaming threatening being upset [00:11:00] not that you don't have the right to that's definitely a valid feeling then I can't get anywhere with them and then I get frustrated I'm like what do you guys want me to do
like they're so miserable like all they talk about is how horrible their mama is their husband is or whoever it is and we can't get anywhere past that and I'm thinking okay a family member over there you're sabotaging me why are you bringing me and usually family members won't pay me too so I'm like why are you paying me because this problem because I need you to help me do this and you've got to make it appealing to come out from underneath this anesthesia is what I might call it that they're under
We're going to take some questions and comments in just a minute I will remind you guys there are resources in the description
if you're looking for if you're if you or your loved one is ready to get some help in recovery coaching we offer our strength based recovery coaching you can do it like the one month or the three month whichever one you want but it's all based on what's working right about you let's move you in the right direction
it's not a whole [00:12:00] tear you down program it's a build you up and pull you out of this kind of program that link's in the description or the invisible intervention if you want to know how to do these things I'm talking about how to use all these counselor skills because maybe you can't get your person to see the counselor and you're the only one there
you're the front line so you're going to have to do the thing that I would do because you can't get them to me if you want to learn that you want to look at the invisible intervention and if you need some help applying all that stuff along the way you want to look at our program where you can get like the weekly group coaching from Kim and Campbell and they can help you apply and pull apart the pieces and figure out how all these things fit for you
eric says If we the family member don't have addiction Is it in bad taste to responsibly consume alcohol with your loved one who abuses alcohol from time to time this is a great question if your person Is not actively trying to stop drinking as in they are still drinking Then I probably wouldn't change your behavior as far as your own drinking around them because sometimes actually If they know [00:13:00] that you think they have problem drinking and they know that you drink and now all of a sudden you're not drinking They almost see it as like a dig or an insult or a judgment
it's oh you think you're better than me or something You know they don't it doesn't feel good so If they're still actively drinking I don't know that I would curtail your behavior if they are trying to stop drinking or they're in early recovery Then I probably would curtail it most people who are Who have some time under their belt and they've been sober for a while
it won't bother them if you have a few drinks It definitely bothers them if you're getting like super intoxicated and I do have a fair amount of clients who get very frustrated because they're Spouse continues to drink and it's like now they're dealing with a spouse that's drunk and not only is it like a trigger because it makes them wanna drink but it's a trigger because it's like now they're dealing with the intoxicated spouse
and I know you're thinking that should payback but I'm just telling you if you want them to stay sober I do think you should curtail it back it doesn't mean you can't drink at all but I wouldn't have it in the house and I wouldn't drink too excess in front of them if [00:14:00] they're trying not to
let's see peggy is asking how to get through to her son when he's in psychosis he is hard to deal with to be honest Peggy there's not a lot you can do to get through to someone in psychosis I do have a video or two on this channel that address that specifically but when someone is in delusion you really have you have to deal with the psychosis before the addiction
it's one of the only times where You should deal with the mental health thing before the addiction and you can't talk someone out of a delusion you can't get them to be rational or present evidence in fact the more you do that the worse that it gets so the goal is to figure out how to either get them in treatment or sidestep it until it clears
so you want to try to not engage with them too much about the psychosis because the more they talk about it the more entrenched and deeper the delusion gets let's see here
let's see Jennifer has a question here how do you respond when the answer they give you to many thing is I'm an alcoholic so is there more I think it looks like [00:15:00] there's dots there basically you're saying that they just own the fact that they're an alcoholic I do think it's harder to deal with someone who knows they have a problem and it's in this I don't care attitude and they just own it
I think it's a lot harder to deal with someone in that state than it is to deal with someone in denial because denial will clear it can clear and there are methods for that what you're gonna want them to see I think eventually is probably life could be happier without it
and that might be difficult but also you have to make the decision you might say okay you've made a decision you're an alcoholic but you can Jennifer you can make a decision about whether or not you want to spend the rest of your life with an alcoholic because the truth of it is they cannot Care about you the same they cannot love you the same and I know i'm probably going to get like a bunch of comments About that have videos about that where I explain it but their primary relationship and loyalty is to the addiction because it has to be not because they're bad but [00:16:00] because it has to be And there's just not much left over for you
and so if the person is to the point where they totally know it and they're just owning it and they realize exactly how much it hurts you and they just don't care then that may be a situation where you have to step back and do something different with yourself whether that's detach and just go on with your life or detached from that relationship
let's see here
how are ways to validate our addict you can validate any positive behavior that's in the right direction It doesn't always have to be about the addiction In fact it really shouldn't be about the addiction really your conversation should be rarely about the addiction But about who they are as a person About their intentions about their talent skills the same way you would validate any son wife husband daughter brother whoever this person is for you
it's not any different you don't have to validate their bad behaviors that's related to the addiction but you can validate any anything else that's positive going on and that will get that dopamine drip that will help them like like being around you [00:17:00] because you make them feel good about themselves
same way the drug makes them feel good about themselves now you have the power to make them feel good about themselves and now You can compete a little bit with the drug
let's see more questions
How do you help them make the association between their addiction and the natural consequences even if he is not making me the bad guy My spouse tends to blame other things and other people thank you great question
If you're not the bad guy if you're gotten out of that role they can still blame other things like bosses politics the country the environment anything whatever kids whatever and they may do that to some degree but deep down they usually know that whatever the addictive behaviors is causing them problems
They may not be aware of the full extent that they're as miserable as they are because of the addiction but they're aware more than they let on to you about that and the reason I know this is because after 20 something years of talking to people with addictions I've [00:18:00] rarely met one that
didn't know it at all and didn't care at all if you once you get them to feel safe enough they do know that it's causing them problems in a lot of ways and they do actually feel bad about it and they do want to stop but they feel trapped or they feel like there's not a better solution or sometimes they feel like okay yeah I've got a problem but
it's not that bad it's not causing that much stuff but they know they do know on some level but they won't always tell it to you the worst one with that is if they're addicted to weed sometimes they really don't make the connection and that can be harder but other than that they usually do know
cCV says I have expressed a lot of anger and snark in the past and I'm now working hard to be empathetic and supportive while allowing natural consequences relapses keep happening hopeless okay first of all nice work I am so proud of you when you are being empathetic And allowing those natural consequences you want the problems to happen because that's the only way to get them fully out of [00:19:00] denial
you want them to figure out that they cannot manage it if relapses are still happening it's probably because they're thinking like maybe there's still a loophole out there maybe if I'm sober long enough and I reset my system then I can use normally or something like that and so you don't want to like
stand in the way of them learning that lesson I think the faster the better don't think that just because they're still drinking and using like you're using these skills don't make them stop the addiction you're using the skills that I teach you guys get you out of the bad guy role which then allows them to see the problem for itself
and you don't want to slow the problem down when you're in that state so it's just a different way of looking at it but congrats on changing it and the fact that you're saying relapses keep happening makes me know that your techniques are working because it makes me know that they're actually have periods of sobriety and periods where they're trying to stop
so it's working
is red flushed face itchy skin taking tums constantly a sign of liver damage thank you [00:20:00] I'm not 100 percent sure if it's a sign of liver damage but those are definitely signs of a problem like when you drink too much and stuff like that so It would make me think that probably yeah could be liver damage I'm not for sure if it's that but it's a sign that the if I'm assuming it's alcohol it's causing problems for sure medically
nancy says Grandsons came to live with me and the addicted child I need to evict her to not expose them to her drinking and behavior how do I show understanding while I'm going through the eviction process I think those are two contradictory goals you can do it on some level you can say I know this is hard but I'm still doing it anyway
so you can express the empathy but I don't think that's going to override the fact that you're evicting them but what you're having to do Nancy is you're having to make the decision where to put your energy and you're putting it towards your grandsons and that's what you should do so you can't always win every single battle and when it's safety and there are kids involved you deal with that
you win that battle and that's what you're doing so you're doing the right thing there's probably not a lot you can do to make your loved one understand the [00:21:00] fact that you're evicting them
let's see here
eric says just finish Beyond Addiction for those of you who don't know that's a book where you can read about the craft method it's very helpful looking for the next step Invisible Intervention Membership or Weekly Group Sessions if you are Just finish the book then you really probably understand pretty well the the craft method which a lot of the current visible intervention talks about the craft method
so I think it would go nicely and pair nicely I've been working pretty fast and furious on the invisible intervention like 3 0 like the updated version and I'm not even sure I'm going to keep the whole craft method part in there I probably will but there's just a lot more in there specifically about communication techniques and skills training and stuff like that
so I think invisible intervention would be a good next step for you the membership the group sessions will help you if you want that you it'll help you to apply it so it's a fairly like inexpensive way to be able to drop in each week [00:22:00] Kim and Campbell are on there doing group coaching so you can stop and you can jump on it's like a zoom call
you can jump on the zoom call and say Hey here's my situation what should I do or you can leave your question early and make sure it gets answered and stuff like that I would say Invisible Intervention and you may want to add on just for a little while so you can have that support in applying it but good for you
you've read the book you're already you've got your head on straight now it's time to do the work
do you know any secular resources around enabling or boundaries I have found All I have found needs a higher power to work I know the I have an entire playlist on here about boundaries and none of that involves higher power most any counselor can deal with boundaries codependency enabling and that kind of stuff and they don't necessarily work from a religious perspective
I think there's probably plenty of resources as far as support groups go there's a lot of look for a codependency support group that's ran by a counselor because usually it's not as steeped in religion unless they're like a Christian counselor or something like that
I [00:23:00] hope that helps there's also smart recovery and there's smart recovery for family members that's another one you might want to look into
let's see here robert says question my A w I think that means alcoholic wife has used alcohol for coping to over 40 years is there a way I can suggest other ways for her to cope without alcohol I know I can't control her but how do I get her to basically I think you're saying how do I get her to see that it's the problem
the issue is that the other any other coping skill that you might suggest isn't going to do the job as quick or as fast as alcohol so it's hard to compete as far as a coping skill is concerned what you probably want to focus on instead and you and I don't want you to do this directly you got to do this indirectly Robert but you got to get her to see that the coping skills she's using yes maybe helps solve that problem a little bit
but is causing a lot more other problems like when you take a medicine for one thing but it causes way more [00:24:00] side effects and problems than it's worth that's what you really want to get her to see not you don't want to just say hey there's other skills other things over here you could use you want to you basically want to get her to see that this alcohol is causing more problems than it's helping
tracy says how do you get a person addicted to weed to see that they are addicted I think it's I think it's difficult one of the ways that people can see usually is that I find when I deal with people addicted to weed they're usually pretty depressed and their anxiety is getting worse and worse
now they're initially they think that The weed is the only thing that helps with the depression or the anxiety but one of the questions that I ask is your anxiety and depression better or worse than when you first started and it is always worse and so a lot of times when you frame it that way they can see that it's actually making them feel worse and worse
it just happens so slowly they don't realize necessarily that is what is going on sometimes they realize that they're not as productive as they want to be and then they realize that is hurting their [00:25:00] self esteem and self confidence so that's another end road those are the things that people are most likely to recognize as far as like the negative consequences of that particular addiction
how or why is an alcoholic man when sober is the nicest person loving hardworking once he starts drinking his nastiness starts sleeping punching sheer utter hatred of you there's some science behind that the science behind that is alcohol is a depressant so your brain starts to try to counteract all of that alcohol by producing the opposite brain chemicals
so alcohol triggers GABA which is a mellow chemical so your brain is counteracting it by producing a lot of glutamate which is an excitatory anxious jittery keyed up kind of feeling and neurobiologically they get in that state a lot of that's why people sometimes get like angry and want to fight when they're drinking
it's because initially it's yes it comes in down and then it does the opposite is because their brain is trying to keep them in homeostasis it's trying to keep them [00:26:00] alive so it's pouring in the opposite chemical that's part of it and then the other part of it is because alcohol turns off your frontal lobe which is your filter
so if you're a nice guy all that bad crap all you stuff like normally you would suppress everything and hold it in and be Mr nice guy and it's there's no suppression now the gate is wide open it doesn't mean that they actually believe and feel the things they say when they're intoxicated
cause sometimes people say that they say Oh they're speaking the truth now not really because when all those that glutamate and all those other brain chemicals are all jacked up They think and feel very differently about everything in their life so yeah they're thinking and feeling it at that moment but it's because their brain chemicals are all jacked up thing about like when women who have postpartum depression and sometimes they have I don't want to be a mom and I want to run away
is that how they really feel probably not but the brain chemicals are wreaking havoc with them that's making them feel that in the moment but it's not how they would feel normally if that problem wasn't happening
let's see
Joanna says it seems that we [00:27:00] have always been taught that weed isn't addictive I think it is too yes it definitely is I do feel like these days more and more people are recognizing like 10 years ago Teenagers would tell me that all of them is not addictive is you can't get chemically dependent
I feel like now because it's So many more people are addicted to it and it's so easy to get And they're using it in so much more concentrated forms like all day every day I think a lot of people are coming to terms with the fact that it's addictive now they may say it's addictive But it's harmless
they may try to minimize the negativity of being addicted to it but I do think more people realize that now because people are like literally using in those vape pens all day every day like They know they're addicted now let's see shristi says My addicted loved one used to drink heavily almost every day for the past two years
since the past two months something has shifted in him he has stopped drinking he has lapped twice but is taking good action steps he has joined a [00:28:00] gym and he goes during the evening his usual binging time both the slip ups happened when he was having bad headaches how do I help him he has been so honest and open with me
first of all I want to say good job to you Tristi because I've been seeing your name on this channel on these lives for a long time and I know that you are part of the reason why he is figuring it out so I'm so proud of you so I just want to say that first and foremost the headache thing the thing I'm thinking there people are more prone to relapse when they're hungry angry lonely tired
and I would also put in pain there because it wears down your resiliency it's like it takes your willpower tank and depletes it immediately it's like when you're in pain you're grumpy you're irritable you're mean you're not in a good mood what that's a symptom of is your willpower tank being depleted
so helping someone get more comfortable even get on some to eat let them rest will actually help them like help them feel better like when you're really hungry and you're mean and you're irritable and all your willpower is gone and you don't [00:29:00] care about being nice to people it's that same sort of thing
so I think it falls into that hungry angry lonely tired thing so if there's something that he knows causes the headaches you can maybe even preempt it is it because he's blood sugars low Is it because he's staring at the computer screen too long is there something that's causing that you might could look at trying to prevent that or deal with the headaches early on or Have a headache emergency like evacuation plan like what to do
okay here's what we're gonna do when that happens But basically it's like he runs out of energy to resist when he's in pain that's what's happening But I'm impressed with both of you I think that's great you're doing awesome
a quick question I followed your advice and got the person I'm dating to start recovery nice impressive but now he feels a bit detached and disengaging from our relationship and asking for some space is that normal it's not abnormal and I don't know if that if his saying space is about like the Relationship stuff like as in the dating part or is in the part of or if it's like back [00:30:00] off of me Let me do my own recovery
See
can you please talk about dry drunks my husband has stopped drinking for one year and six months by but refuses to go to treatment he's tried AA for three months his sister has died seven months ago he now wants a divorce I used to use the word dry drunk more frequently but I've stopped using it because I because sometimes I feel like when someone gets sober everything they do that the family or someone else doesn't like their call and dry drunk when it could just be a personality trait it could just be another problem
so I'm a little leery of the word dry drunk if you're not if you've never heard of that term it's an old recovery term that basically means someone maybe got sober but they didn't fix anything inside so there's still and then some people think you're a dry drunk if you got sober and you didn't go to 12 step
they'll say you're dry drunk just for that or you're dry drunk just because you didn't go to treatment or something like that but I don't necessarily agree with that completely so I would need to know a little bit more about your situation to give you more [00:31:00] specific advice like what kind of behaviors are you seeing that are your call in dry like
okay is what's going on I know you said he's wanting a divorce but what else is happening there and then I would be able to give you more specific kind of information that's a good question like being in the family recovery membership would be because you get to get on live with the counselors and
Say these things so you can get better feedback all right everybody
I'll see you guys next time
