To Call Out or Not: Navigating Lies and Secrets in Addiction(full vid)
===
[00:00:00] I'm your host, Amber Hollingsworth. I'm an addiction specialist, and I've been helping people beat addiction for more than 20 years. Now, this podcast is for people who want to know how to get through to an addicted loved one, for people who are tired of being told that they just need to stand back and wait for their loved one to decide to do something about it.
Subscribe to this podcast to learn how to outsmart addiction and put this whole mess behind you. Should I call out my loved one if I know they're lying to me? If I know they've relapsed and they're trying to say they haven't? If I know that they weren't where they said they were going to be? Should I call it out if I know my loved one is intoxicated and they're trying to play it off like they're not?
That is a question we get all the time from family members. But to be honest, family members are not the only ones that have these kind of questions. People in early recovery Have similar type questions, like for example, I get asked, Hey, I had a relapse. Maybe the person confesses it to me, their recovery coach.
And they're like, do I have to tell my [00:01:00] spouse or my spouse is wanting all these details about things that happened in the past? Should I tell them all those details? Is it good? Is it not good? And because these are such common questions. We're going to cover them. We're going to tackle this topic on today's video because the answers varies I think depending on each of those situations is slightly different and we're going to tackle this in two major pieces.
We're going to talk about it from the family member side should they call out lies and secrets and in order to do that we're going to bring on Campbell Manning our family recovery specialist because she answers this question. All the time, she's going to give you her feedback and then I will give you feedback about if you're on the addicted person side about what you should tell and maybe what you should hold back so you can make strategic.
Logical decisions about it and not emotionally reactive decisions because we all know that ends us up nowhere. Campbell, thank you for joining us. Hey, you're welcome. It's my pleasure. Campbell's giving up her lunch break to talk to us. You guys, she's like a [00:02:00] beast. She's works more than any of us. Don't worry.
I shoveled that kale salad down record time. So Campbell, I know you and I were looking through our family members group to see if they were like common questions. And this is the one we saw most often. There are different variations of it, but it was like, what should I call out? And what should I not?
Because it's really hard when you know the truth and you're the family member. And they're lying to you, Campbell, what the world, what do you do? It's a, it is a complicated question. And I think before we know better, we do call it out. And we ask a lot of really stupid questions. Like, why are you doing this to stop?
But ultimately I tell people all the time, you get to know what, you know, you don't, first of all, they're not going to tell you the truth. I can't tell you how many parents talk to me and they're like, I asked him if he was taking pain pills and he said, no, and I'm like, who in the hell says? Yes. Never had anyone say, oh, yeah, I'm taking a bunch of opiates.
1st of all, they lie to the bullet pushes on their shame button. And then that makes you angry. So it does no 1, any good. You already know the truth. [00:03:00] They just blew, they took your gas money and bought. weed with it. You already know this. Why do you need to ask? Yeah. And it's a, it's almost a reflex on the addicted person's part.
It's almost like literally I had two people tell me this week, two of our strength coaching clients had told me about having a lapse and they were like, and my wife asked me and I had drank and I was like, no, I haven't. And I just kept denying until I was totally backed into a corner. Cause I don't know why I do that.
And I hear that all the time. And it is really. It is almost like a human reaction, right? You think of, you ask a kid, did you do that? But no, it's like Campbell. If I say Campbell, did you spend too much money on clothes this week? No, absolutely not. Do I have a new dress in my mailbox from Bowdoin? No, absolutely not.
That email was a lie that I got. Why are there more boxes on your porch, Campbell? And so, it's just a defensive reflex. I'm not saying it's okay. I'm not condoning it necessarily. I'm just saying, think about these things before you say them. And to be honest, what I have found also is, [00:04:00] If you ask the person with the addiction, did you blank today?
And they didn't like, even if someone had an eating disorder, you said, did you eat breakfast? And they didn't, but they lie and they say, yes, I did. And then though, what happens, and this is where I've learned not to do this is then they flip it around. I was going to eat breakfast, but I'm not because you're on my back about it, which was a bold play spot.
They weren't going to eat anyway, but now they flipped it and they're justifying their addictive thoughts and behaviors. Back to the person who asked the question. So that's why I strongly say, don't ask. That's a really good point. I didn't think of that one, Kim, because it's like, it's that ninja move. So if you say, have you been drinking today?
You seem funny. And then they're, they might, they're probably going to say, no, I'm just tired. That's the, I'm just tired. And then the other thing that could happen is exactly what Campbell's saying. They could say something like, if you're going to always accuse me, I might as well go do it because nothing I do, it doesn't matter, you're always think I'm And whether they say that or not, they're [00:05:00] thinking it and this is where you have to remember when you ask these questions, you're engaging addiction in the conversation, which is always there waiting to get in the conversation.
But once you ask these questions, you've said with a nice, Hand and Graved invitation. Come on in. And that's what you're gonna get. Are you officially, is it your official answer? You should just let them get by with the lies is that's what you're saying. You're gonna go on public. I'm gonna go and say that bottom online.
I hope this goes out to the whole world. Yes, the lie. Because you don't need to ask it. If I come home from work and the dishes are in the sink and the bank is downstairs watching football, and I said, did you watch football all day? He's going to be like, no, but I know Danley did because he didn't do the dishes.
So why do I need to ask? I can either say, okay, we watched football. Do I care if I, or do I just do the dishes and let it go? It doesn't matter. And the example about the dishes is good because it's really, what is the real thing I'm trying to get at? And oftentimes it's not the question we're asking, for example, like.
[00:06:00] You said, if I'm asking Frank, if he watched football day, what I really care about is, did you get the chores done? And you're, you might be more likely to get a, an honest answer. If you ask the more pertinent, legitimate question, the thing that you're really. Is there a reason you didn't do the dishes, but I think for when you're talking about your addict, are you high?
Did you steal the 5 dollars out of my wallet? They just say, no, and I can't tell you how many of those conversations I had over the years. I thought I had 10. Did anybody take it out? Just knowing one of those clowns took 10 out of my wallet, note to self, don't leave cash. So you're just saying, yeah, it sucks to be lied to, but don't, if you don't ask the question, you're not really getting lied to and the answer already, when you're asking, you already know.
And I think that's a really good point, Amber, because Then you just, you can know it. You can store it up. You can put it in your hopper for later decisions or whatever, but you're also not going to get mad about it. But when you ask the question and you're lied to, you're going to become livid. [00:07:00] You're lying.
Now you're lying. Why are you lying? I just happened to think of, I was telling you like a week or so ago, I've been Rereading that, like Chris Voss, the hostage negotiator stuff. Oh God, you guys buckle up. This is so good. It's really just counseling techniques, but he gives them like interesting names, but he stole them from us first.
I'm still on them back. He recommends this thing where you say, you probably have a good reason for. Blah, blah, blah. So if you say, Hey, did you do the dishes? They're going to say, well, they may lie, but you couldn't find it. So you probably have a good reason why you couldn't get to the dishes today. And there, and then a lot of times they'll be like, actually, I just sat on my butt and watched football all day.
I should have done it. And then they do it. So. It's almost like you're inviting them to give you the reason and you're doing it with a nonjudgmental voice and you're far more likely to get the truth than if you just come out because it's, did you do this? Or why did you do this? The why question is also very like attacking questions.[00:08:00]
They're just going to become defensive immediately. And you don't want that with an addiction, because it's just brick by brick filling up the wall. That's breaking the connection. So it's actually working against you long term. Does it matter if, does the circumstance at all, does it make a difference if we're talking about before someone's supposedly supposed to be in active recovery?
Like they're just using, right? And they're not even pretending that they're trying to get sober versus they went to treatment or whatever. They're like a month, three months, six months. If they've been doing really good. And then have a lapse, does that make any difference? Or do you say deal is probably not going to go?
What do you think? I think it probably isn't going to go well, but maybe later. I don't think you should ever have these kind of conversations with someone who's intoxicated. That's just not going to go. Well, period. Oh, yeah, maybe the next day or something. You say, hey, you seem a little off last night. I'm just wondering.
If there's anything I can do to help support you in your recovery, or is there anything I can do that would be helpful to you or whatever language you would use that isn't going [00:09:00] to push on a button. But I even 1 time. I don't I think I would just let it go. But maybe it's because I know that lapses are part of the disease.
Yeah, I think from a strategic point of view, I agree because it's, you're likely to get the same kind of response, like a denial probably. And at best you might get a, yeah, David, it was only one beer. So it's like a minimization at best. Yeah. I just don't think I tell the story all the time, but I years ago worked for a nonprofit.
I had these two great girls that worked for me, but I had Walker shortbread cookies that I'd gotten from Santa in my stocking. And Y'all, I love these things like more than anything, but they're super fattening. So I don't eat it very often and I guard them. Cause there's 10 in a box. I had these cookies underneath my desk at work and I saw them.
I was like, Ooh, snap, I could have a cookie. And so I bent down and shoved a cookie in my mouth and was like, Chewing it. And then Casey was like, what are you doing down there? I was like, She's like, are you eating something? I'm like, got up. She goes, you're lying. She goes, you're eating Walker shortbread [00:10:00] cookies without us.
And I'm literally cookie in my mouth going to me. That was like an innocent thing. I'm not addicted to Walker short kind of, but it can't afford to be so not. That wasn't even that bad, except I was just not sharing my cookies. So you felt bad, not because you ate a cookie because you didn't share. That's that self press.
I'm having though a question about, and I say this a lot in videos. It's been a while since I said it, but I always say addiction can only live in the dark, turning the light on it. It just doesn't survive with the light on. And I definitely believe that. So there's definitely this part of me that's, if someone's been sober for a while and they've lapsed, you definitely do not want to call it out like an accusation.
You definitely don't want to throw a fit, get hostile, have bad body language in any kind of yell or punish. But in some circumstances, and you may have to think through yourself and your person and personalities and stuff like, I do think it's helpful to say, hey, I know you've, I know you've been struggling lately or something like that, or it seems to me like you might be struggling.
Is there right? But you would say that to a friend [00:11:00] or a spouse who look like they just had a bad day. You wouldn't say, what did you do today? That made you have a bad day. It was like, is there anything I can do? You look like you have a little bit on the struggle bus. And then they might say something like, what are you talking about?
I'm fine. And if they do say something like that, then I would say, I know you drank yesterday. I know you smoked yesterday. I know you whatever yesterday. And then you can even say, Hey, I'm not upset. I'm not, I'm just pulling it to the surface. The other thing that comes to my mind as far as why that's important is because I have had a lot of clients tell me, Especially married couples do this.
It's like they say, my using, drinking, whatever, gambling, whatever it is, does not really affect my spouse. They're just hypersensitive to it and they just throw a fit. And every time they get away with it and the spouse doesn't even notice. It reaffirms to them, see, it doesn't even affect them. It's just literally, if they just know I did it, it's just the knowing that's upsetting them is not the fact that I did it.
And so it's almost like, see, it's like the, it's this little game where they prove to themselves that it doesn't affect anyone else. [00:12:00] Well, and to that point, I think instead of saying, Hey, I know you drank yesterday, it would be more beneficial to say something like, I just felt myself becoming a little anxious last night and worrying about you again.
And so it makes me think maybe it's like you drank because that's how I Felt the whole time you were actively drinking. So that would be that reinforcement of that again, not yelling, not punishing, but just saying, Hey, we're in this together. And I felt myself going backward. I'm wondering if you did. Oh, I like that.
That kind of goes back to what you were saying earlier about get to the real thing. So you could say, instead of, I know you realize I know you used or whatever, you could say, Hey, you seemed distant yesterday, or you seem to like. Isolate yourself or not want to be around. So it's, you're noticing the behavior's different.
And then that'll at least cue the person up like, Oh, I'm on the radar. I'm not as smooth as I think I am. And it does go to that fact of, Oh, it is noticeable. And, and she does care. The key is if you are going to bring it up, which there are circumstances you do, [00:13:00] it's. How you bring it up because the, your tone and your body language, this is actually has to do with like neurological wiring.
You can say almost anything you wanna say to somebody if you say it in the right tone. Yeah. It, it, it's like it bypasses that defense mechanism if you can say it. And your body has to match too. So even if your tone's right, but your body's aggressive or something like that, then it doesn't work. So if you can get your energy right.
And you say it, it doesn't hit that same defense. But that's so true. Cause even going back to poor Frank, he's doing something wrong. I don't know, watching football all day and not helping out. Instead of saying, my God, I just say, dude, and he knows right then something's wrong, but I say it funny and then he fixes it and then we'd move on.
Like he evaluates very quickly. What am I doing wrong? And he, cause he knows, and then he fixes it. And I don't have to ever use an accusatory tone and he doesn't have to become defensive. So in that circumstance, it's almost like a, like an inside joke, but I think I talk all the time about this new triangle I have, which is [00:14:00] if you empathize and validate, which is example, we just used with the, I felt a little anxious and then empower, there's no need for defensiveness.
And now you're joining them and you're building that oxygen and that actually, the serotonin, because you connect with them and they can be proud that they redirected themselves or that they move forward or, you know, Fix their laps or whatever's going on there, then you're now aligning and empowering them.
You made me think of when you said that you just made me think of a few weeks back. One of the, one of the strengths clients we had clicked into the session and then we do it via zoom and immediately she clicked in. And the first thing I saw was her take his deep breath. And I said, oh, you got something big to tell me.
It was like. Here we go. I could tell she was gearing up and she was like, I do. And then she just poured out. I had a relapse yesterday, blah, blah, blah. And then she just spit it out really fast. And she's, and my husband caught me and I promised I would tell you. And I was like, Dave, you told me like immediately you didn't even beat around the bush.
And so in that circumstance, I think it was helpful to bring it to the surface because we had some great conversations [00:15:00] about it. We talked about what led to it. We talked about whether or not she needed to tell her sponsor or pick up a white chip. And she actually felt so much better after the fact. So there, there's I think they do.
I do think they do need to say, it's just, do they need to say it to you? Not you, but to my parents or to my spouse. Maybe I do need to talk about it with my sponsor. Sometimes it depends on where the, how the family member is. They may still be in the angry stage of this and to know that, Hey, yesterday I relapsed, but I'm going to a meeting tonight.
They would get, they won't say, oh, all right, thanks for sharing. I'm sure you can fix this. They'll be like, oh my God. And that would be detrimental. All right. I'm I'm I'm I'm gonna throw you a hard question here. Cause I feel like this might hit home a little bit. What if you find out not just they stole 5, but they stole big?
Oh, that's just mean Amber. That's different. Okay. Tell us, I don't know. They stole your engagement ring. What? Something important here. They stole your mother's diamond earrings that you just inherited. That's right. Do you just leave that [00:16:00] and let them figure it out? What do you do with that? Are you asking when you discover that, what do you do with it?
Yeah. Do you call that out or do you just leave it? Oh, I called it out. Mean ugly bad didn't go well. Okay, so denied it. He recommend lied. He lied. Is that what you recommend to other people? I think in that case, I would just say, Hey, these things are missing. And I know that I didn't lose them and I know that dad didn't.
So I'm just letting you know that I'm pretty aware that you're stealing from me. And that's not going to, that's not going to last. We're not going to have that as a new won't live here, but I think, but again, this is where are you in your boundary ability? I just had this conversation with a client and she was like, I don't, I can't have any boundaries.
I'm like, then don't say these things. So would you, speaking of that, which is slightly off topic, but relevant in a situation like that, would you turn it into the police? Would you like press a charge or something? What's that look? You're like, I made Campbell stop and dang. No, I, I, It just depends on where you are in this.
[00:17:00] I didn't. I am not sad that I didn't. It might have stopped it sooner, but I don't want my child to have a police record. Okay. Okay. So what you're saying is, it's not a total right and wrong answer here. You have to really think it through. And if you were to report it to the police, then I think you would, I would recommend that you come at it from the perspective of, I don't want him to be arrested.
Okay. And put in jail, I'd like for you to help me get him mandated to treatment so that I would do it for a positive reason with a better outcome than punishment. It's not going to help. Yeah, there's a couple of things that go on in my mind with that as far as how it's going to impact the addictive person.
And I know I'm always like, that's all I ever think about is. If you do this, what are they gonna think? How are they gonna respond? Is it gonna move us closer or further? If a person gets a legal charge and they know you're responsible for it, like you call the law because they stole, because they were being aggressive because they drunk.
Drunk drive or whatever. Drunk drive, whatever. I can't even think [00:18:00] drove well, intoxicated drove, and they know it's on you. They almost never learn the lesson. All they can think about is, I can't believe you turned your own daughter and your own wife and it's all they'll fixate on. In that respect, I'm like, I don't think it's totally fine.
Sometimes a legal charge is a wake up call, but if they know it came from you, it, It doesn't hit home the same. It can bite you big time. On the other hand, especially in cases like where we've dealt with like really young kids like teenagers or maybe early 20s and they're just wild and like you and they're just wrecking the house and they're just destructive and like literally the only like you just wish they would get arrested because it's the only thing that's going to stop it that that might be a situation where you.
I would say definitely call the police. Okay, and again, I think it's about where what boundaries of yours are being crossed. If they're breaking all your stuff, they're damaging your home. Then you're like, I'm not having this. If they're beating their own car with a hammer, I might let them get away with it.
Okay. [00:19:00] So if whatever they're doing is just. Causing them consequences. If whatever they're doing is just causing them consequences. I can tell you definitely want to let that ride because that's how we get out of denial, right? If it's venturing over into your lane, like some of these other things we're talking about that, that's when it gets, you have to really think strategically, what is my goal here?
What am I trying to make happen? And, or even more basic than that, Amber would be. What am I going to continue to say yes to? Is it having my home abused? Is it having my space violated? Is having my money taken? Is at what point am I going to say that's enough? Yeah, to me, there are lines that just, even as much as I'm advocate, let them figure it out themselves.
There are lines that you just don't cross. And I personally think if someone's stealing from you on the radio, I feel like that's abuse. You can't live in your own home and you're worried about locking your wallet up at night. To me, that's abuse. The same as emotional abuse, physical abuse. It's just, it's, it makes you unsafe in your home.
And then it just makes you crazy and all avenues of your life. So now [00:20:00] my life is completely ruined, which it happens. Anyways, for parents is my life is ruined because of your problem. But there's a, there's an end point in my opinion about how much of that you will tolerate. Everyone's end point is different.
I got that. You got to know your end point. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. And it's hard because sometimes. Most of the time, the person with the addictions needs differ or they're just not always in alignment with what the family member needs. And that's why we, that's why we do this separately.
That's why we have our model where each person has their advocate, because I'm always thinking through what do you need to, what's the best scenario for the person, but you and Kim do a lot of thinking through, okay, the family matters too. Don't listen to Amber all the time because, Hey, that's not okay.
And that's why I need you guys to come in here. It's like sometimes you're in my sessions. I feel bad about it sometimes. Like I feel myself doing it and I feel that. So I'm like, can we go, you know, go over there. Lawyer for your people. Cause they need it. I know that they need to hear from you guys. And I know that's a lot of what you guys deal with in the membership.
Right? Like if we [00:21:00] don't, if we don't empower them and they don't know their boundaries and they don't know their end point, this game will go on forever until until the family members change. Usually the other person, the addicted one doesn't change. Right. Do you think it makes a difference between the relationship, like spouses versus parents versus siblings versus, does that matter?
Does it matter as far as boundaries, the boundaries and stuff? I, you know what? I used to think the hardest job in the world was being the parent of a drug addict, but as I do this job. More and more. I really think being the spouse of a person with an addiction is harder because you own a home together.
You own property together. You might have children. You don't have as much power. So you really do have to know your end point. You don't have to share it and you don't have to know it like solid, but you have to recognize I'm going to have it. That's a good point. I never thought about that. Cause I was with you emotionally.
Fear wise, I feel like it's fear wise is worse to be the parent, but parents [00:22:00] do have power, but spouse wise, logistically, you're so tied in with this person. And if you don't have as many options, I can tell you, I hear this constantly from the alcoholic spouses that I see is I don't know what they're bitching about and pay the house payment.
I go to work. They drive a nice car. I go to the children's baseball games. Does it really matter if I'm taking a gin and tonic? That's the problem. And that's, that keeps that problem just going and going while the spouse is like behind the scenes. What's a, is there a common thing that, that people talk to you and Kim about?
Whereas I'm always saying, let this happen or let that happen or it's okay. And then you guys are like, no, put the smack down. I feel like there probably is. I'm sure there is. I can't think of it. Yeah. All the time. Cause I'm constantly saying that's Amber's perspective and I'm working with your perspective.
I'm your lawyer. I say, don't watch Amber's videos about that. That's why you got to have a lawyer, right? You got to have an advocate, right? I totally get that. A lot of times I'll tell my people, especially if they're young people, like if it's a parent kid situation, I'll say, let me tell you what Campbell's doing over [00:23:00] there.
She's going to tell your parents to act nice and not call you out on this stuff. But, and you're going to think, Oh, they don't even know it. And you're getting away with it. And I said, don't you believe it? It's a trap, man. There's no trap for you, man. They're just scared of them. Or does that make them challenge, rise to the challenge.
I don't think I, I still think it still works on them. I don't think, I think it, they think they're getting away with it. They're just happy. They're getting away with it. They think they're flying in the radar. Even I said, don't, don't even think it's, you're going to love it. It can be like, Oh, I love my parents.
He's coming because they're off my back. I'm like, dude, they're setting you up like they're going to get you or whatever. Yeah. Anything, any other boundary common ones? I know you got to go, you got like three minutes. So while we got the wisdom. Of the family specialist, any other, I think I just want to reiterate you by not pointing it out by not asking, by not being like, do you still know?
And that's very important to to just put it in there. Right? Talked about it with your counselor, write it down, know [00:24:00] it. Does it. In 3 days matter, then get rid of it. If it's just 1 plus 1, and all of a sudden, you're like, okay, that's it. That's 10. I'm done or whatever. I just think you not calling it out.
Doesn't mean it doesn't matter. Not calling it out. Doesn't mean it's not going to have some huge importance at some point in time when you have enough evidence or knowledge or fatigue or whatever word that you're gathering with this knowledge. It's going to matter at some point tonight. No, maybe not.
And sometimes it just matters. Cause you just stand back and let the unmanageability show itself. Let it, let the bubble burst itself. Cause it will. The other thing I would say to that is, and I know it's hard for families to leave me, but if you don't, they actually feel guilty and the, that feeling of guilt is much, much worse.
Much more likely to get them to change than the feeling of resentment, which is the feeling that they will have if you call them out for it. And it's hard, though, because our product gets in the way a little bit. [00:25:00] Right? We don't want it to be what it is, or and so we want to ask the question so that they'll.
Tell us the truth. So maybe what we're beginning to believe is not actually happening. I didn't think about that, Campbell. So it's almost like we want them to convince us that it didn't happen. Yes. I didn't think about that. Oh, interesting. Going on my merry way with my little perfect life instead of.
Shoot. Now I have a big problem. It's like when I had the conversation with my son in the car and I thought he was a gay murderer, I was much more comfortable with having a child who was a gay murderer than a drug addict. I know. I don't know why that is, but people always want it to be anything else. I'm like, dang, this is the most solvable of them.
I know, but we don't know that at the time. Yeah. I'd have client parents all the time. They're like, Oh, my son has. Bipolar disorder. I'm like, or could it be the meth? And maybe he just has a drug addiction. They're like, no, it's bipolar. I'm like, we really want it to be a drug addiction, not bipolar. We can fix the addiction.
We can't do much with bipolar. Exactly. All right. We're going to go let [00:26:00] you help some more families out there. Thank you for hanging out. Those of you who are watching, hanging there, because we're going to talk about it from the addicted person side about what you should share and not share as far as giving up your own secrets, because there is a method to making that decision.
Okay. And if you guys, if anybody wants to make a session with you, I put the link in the description, Campbell. Okay. Because you might need Campbell to help you think through some of these questions and boundaries. And should I call it out or not? What's okay. And what's not. Or they're watching this thing.
She didn't know what she was doing any more than I do right now, back in the day. So why would I listen to her? Sometimes it depends on personality. Sometimes there are some extra factors that you really do need to like brainstorm with someone to think through all the different angles about making these decisions.
It's not as black and white as we're making it out. It, No, it's for Mila for doing this. Yeah, I agree. All right. Thanks for having me. Bye. If you'd like to get additional advice, support, coaching on your specific situation, consider becoming a member. When you become a member, you actually become [00:27:00] a family.
Remember, every single week, our family recovery specialist, Kim and Campbell come on, they do live group coaching calls. So you can ask questions about your situation, get advice, get feedback, find out what to do next. And those live group coaching calls are exclusive members only. You also get the support of the community and you get advanced skills training.
I'll put the link in the description so you can become a family member today. If you're trying to get into recovery, you're trying to get sober, and you're also trying to mend relationships with your family, your friends, your loved ones, should you tell them all the secrets and lies that have happened?
Should you tell them if you've had a relapse? Do they need to know all the details? What is the right thing to do in this situation? That's what I told you guys I was going to talk about on the second half of the last live video. In part one, we had Campbell on here and she addressed from the family member side, do I call out lies when I see them?
What [00:28:00] questions do I ask? What boundaries should I have around lying, sneaking, and all that kind of stuff. So if you haven't seen Part one, hop over there and take a look at that. But for those of you who were interested in this part of the question is what should you tell as the person who is trying to turn your life around?
How much information do you need to give? This part's for you guys. All right, so this is a question that I, that comes up in our coaching clients. A lot. And the question, it comes in different forms. Sometimes it's like, I had a lapse. My family doesn't know about it. I've already stopped it. Do I need to tell them about it?
Another way this question comes up is more like my, my spouse, my loved one, my family member, they want to know every single detail about everything that happened. And a lot of that's going to be very upsetting. Do I tell them all of it? And if I don't, is that considered lying? What do I do in that situation?
And the answer isn't always black and white, but there are some general guidelines that I can give you to help you think through [00:29:00] this decision and make a wise decision on your part. So in an overall sense, it's my thought and feeling and philosophy that addiction can only live in the dark and turning the light on it and bringing it to the surface.
Right out there for people to see is the best way to conquer an addiction because addiction only lives in secrecy and darkness It cannot live in truth and lightness. Okay, so whenever possible You want to bring the truth to the surface, especially when it comes to something like a relapse If you have a relapse and maybe it's not that bad and maybe it doesn't last that long It's so tempting to think to yourself like look, I don't want to upset everybody else.
I'll just keep this to myself I've got it under control. I've already stopped it There's no sense in stirring the pot and getting everybody upset which is totally understandable I get that completely but it's not always the best thing to do for you as a person in recovery But because it happened and you were able to stop it.
It's just allowing a lot of those secret Thoughts [00:30:00] to come back in those monster mouths to talk to you and it because you got away with it And no one knows you're still flying under the radar. It leaves a lot of room for more lapses I definitely think you should tell someone when that has happened and I do think it is very helpful to tell your close Family, whether it's your parent, your spouse, or whoever it is that you're living with, that's helping you on this journey.
I think it is most of the time helpful to tell them. There are a few circumstances where I say, maybe not tell the family, but definitely tell someone that can help hold you accountable, your coach, your sponsor, your counselor, your group mate, whoever it is, talk to someone about it because leave it in the secrecy and it'll come back.
You definitely want to turn a light on it. Sometimes with family members, if you know that they already know and they've been asking you, but you've been lying about it, I would just complain because they already know about it. And when you keep lying to their face, your trust is just nothing, and they're just not gonna believe anything you say.
So if that's the case, tell them. If your loved one is the kind of loved one who's [00:31:00] going to get so reactive and so upset that it is literally going to cause world war 10 and they're not going to get over it and you're not going to get over it and everything's just going to come crashing down, then it's not always the best thing to tell the loved one.
Now, I'm hesitant to even say that because I don't want you to use that as an excuse. Oh, it's going to upset them, not tell them. That's not what I'm saying. When you give someone bad news, it's going to upset them. That does not mean you get to not tell the truth because someone's going to be upset.
Everyone's going to be upset. I'm talking about the situations where it is literally going to self destruct and blow up, and it's not going to end well. And you know that, and they're just not going to get over it. It's just going to go on for months or whatever. In that situation, it's not always helpful to tell them if they don't know it.
Bye. You do need to get your butt back in the right place and get yourself back in line and you do need to tell someone, okay? Let's move on to the question about do you tell all the details about everything that's happened that's gone on during your addiction? Now, if you work a 12 step program, they have like a whole process for that and it is helpful to [00:32:00] say out loud those things that you've done and to talk to someone about those things because it, you alleviates the guilt and the shame and you feel better about yourself.
It actually feels really good. It's almost like pulling a splinter out. It's like you can heal then. So it is helpful to shed the light on. Like I said, secrecy and darkness, you want to avoid it. So you want to talk to someone about it. But when it comes to your close, uh, Family members, knowing all the details, it's like traumatizing.
I tell this to someone, you don't want to know what I know. Okay. You would be traumatized to hear all these things. So if you're a family member and you're watching this, you don't want to know all the details. What you really want to know is you want to know that they get it. You want to know that they know they have a problem and that they're going to do something about it.
That's what you want to know. You literally don't want all of that stuff because once you know it, you can't If you're the person who's. Trying to change your life and you're in this situation and your loved one is asking you for that. I would, I wouldn't outright refuse, but I would say, look, I don't think all the details are [00:33:00] helpful.
I'm telling you like the main part, like the main storyline here. It's all above board, all that, but there may be some difficult, uncomfortable things and I don't think that you need to talk about that. All the little teeny specifics of everything with your family member. Unless it's something that they already know, and they know, and you just keep lying about it.
Like you stole 50 bucks from them or something, and they know it. And they've been asking you about it and you keep lying. Yeah. You just need to own that, right? Because you're just harming yourself and them by continuing to lie about it. I'm talking about these like really hurtful things. It's in 12 steps.
They say, make amends, accept one to do so, would be harmful. to yourself or someone else, but you got to be real honest with yourself about this. This does not let you off the hook to not be honest just because you don't want to deal with some uncomfortableness. You got to get real with yourself about the situation, okay?
And either which way you need to talk to someone about it. It comes up real frequently with the [00:34:00] coaching clients that I see is I'll tell them when they first come and look, when you first come see me, you're probably already in the dog house, just about as far in the dog house as you can get. Okay. So if there are other secrets in the box that are, Could come out maybe likely to come out.
Let's go ahead and tell them now, but not not tell me whatever but let's go ahead and get them out with your loved one because If we get three or six months down the road and you've been doing awesome And you've won back trust and then all of a sudden some secret comes up like somebody knocks on your door and says Your son here owes my three thousand dollars for drugs It hasn't been me and it's gonna surface and it's gonna come out You You want to bring it out before the other person finds it out.
You want to bring it out before your call Whatever it is always better to do that And so when I see new clients, I say listen if it's going to happen just tell me now I will literally go down the hall. I'll talk to cam I'll talk to cam and i'll say we need a free pass But we need to tell this because we don't want it sabotaging us two [00:35:00] months down the road And a lot of times it's like owing money or having stole something or Having hung out with the wrong people, just some stuff like that, that could surface and just completely destroy any kind of trust or credibility that you've built.
And then your loved one's going to be so mad at you and that's going to impact you and your recovery and your self esteem and everything else. I'm like, let's just get it out there. If you're watching this and you're a family member, And your person is hiding some of those things. The thing that you can do that would be helpful is just give them room to be honest, because it really does help them to be honest because that secret keeping is no good.
It creates shame, guilt. You start subconsciously backing up and backing away from people because you're holding these bad things. So it's helpful for them to say it. So anything you can do as a loved one to allow it to come up, please do that. You can literally say what I say, listen, free pass. If there's other things you'll tell me, I'm telling you right now, it's not going to be worse than it is [00:36:00] right now.
Like I'm not going to retrospectively go back and you're not going to get more punishment and more trouble or whatever. And you can even say, and if something comes up and you think of something next week and you need to tell it to me, tell it to me. And you have this thing that stands. I think there's probably small exceptions to that.
Like you're probably not going to give someone a free pass on an affair. Okay. But other things that are just continuations of. Other bad behaviors that have been happening. I mean you might as well let them come out You'll feel better because you'll know the truth You'll know that they're not lying to you and they'll feel better because it's out and they don't have to like Hide from it or run from it or keep people separated or do a lot of splitting That's going to keep them in addictive behavior If your loved one is doing really good and six months later something does come out and the truck dealer does come knock on the door I get that's hurtful And i'm not saying that you shouldn't be upset about of course you're going to be upset about it But i'm saying if you throw a And you get back on that drama rollercoaster that you've worked so hard to get off of, [00:37:00] it's going to pull them back on the rollercoaster with you.
And then they're going to start denying and tap dancing and gaslighting and blaming and all the things, right? And then the two of you are going to be back in that dance. If you will handle it and just say to your loved one, Hey, I know this happened. I know you've been keeping a secret. I wish you would feel like you could tell me things now.
I get it. You've done a lot of bad things. Is there anything else? And you handle yourself totally fine with it. It will take that trust and just strengthen it so much because they're going to feel like, okay, I can trust them. They're not going to freak out. They handled it well, but a lot of coaching clients recently tell me like something happened and they're like, and my wife didn't even freak out and she handled it really well.
And they're like telling me how not they feel good about what they did, but how. They feel good about their relationship and how much better they feel and how helpful that is. It, it really is helpful to the relationship if both people feel like they can be honest with each other and that no one is going to lose their [00:38:00] cool and go back into those all bad behaviors and start all the roller coaster of drama.
Okay. If you want to stay in recovery, Both sides have to maintain cool. You have to be respectful to each other, kind and considerate to each other, even when the hard feelings are happening, right? If you're a loved one and you're addicted, loved one tells you something and it's just really hard and you're really upset about it, then you can say.
I get it. I'm just going to need some time to process that. Give me some time to think, and then go to your friend, go to your sponsor and process through it before you try to hash it out with your loved one. If it's really infuriating, saddening, whatever it is, give yourself some time before you go and address that issue.
One of the big questions that was asked by three or four people were, do I call out lies? If my addicted loved one is lying and it had to do with They're intoxicated and they're saying that they're not and they're going to drive my kids That got asked a few times and I do want to address that. Yes, you call that out safety always comes [00:39:00] first And especially the safety of children always comes first Everything that I tell you goes out the window when it comes to safety You do not let someone that's intoxicated drive your kids in the car Okay, so that's just where you're going to have to do what you're going to have to do.
The 1st level I would try is just try to bypass and be like, no, it's cool. I'll drive. I'll take them or whatever will meet you there. Whatever you got to do. Try to just sidestep and handle it. If that doesn't work, then go to the next level and say something like, I'm really just not comfortable with you driving.
I feel better if you let me drive. So you're saying it, but not saying it. And if that doesn't work and they're throwing a fit and they're just like adamantly Swearing that they're not they can't believe you and you're saying they're a bad mother and whatever is turning to argument You can say look Maybe i'm wrong But I feel like you're intoxicated if you would like to take a test a breathalyzer or drug test and show me that you're not Then I will admit i'm wrong and we can move on But unless you're willing to do that, then you're not driving my kids in the car so when it comes to something like that, you definitely You know Call it out and you definitely step in for [00:40:00] safety kinds of reasons.
Someone else in the chat asked a really good question that I haven't heard before, which was, I think it was a situation where it was like their ex, and I guess there were children in custody and stuff like that. And it's like, is it okay to set a boundary with my ex about not being intoxicated when they're talking to my kid on the live chats?
So probably part of the custody stuff is that they, the kids get to talk to the other parent on, what is it called? FaceTime or whatever. And the way the person initially asked the question is, can I set a boundary? Is it okay to set a boundary with them about that? And the thing about it is this is boundaries are for you.
You cannot set boundaries for someone else that's called a rule and you can't really enforce it, especially if it's your ex. All right. What you can do in a situation like that is you can tell, you don't even have to tell that person. Sometimes you need to, but a lot of times you can just make a deal with yourself.
If, My kids are on the FaceTime or whatever and they're talking to their whatever the other parent and whatever's going [00:41:00] on is harmful. Like they're so intoxicated, it's upsetting the kids. They're being negative, threatening, hostile. The kids are being confused. Like if it's causing damage, then just end the call.
And you may want to tell your loved one, listen, if things start going sideways and it's really bad, I'm just going to end the call, right? And then we could try again tomorrow or something like that. That's probably a boundary I would set for yourself. But do you, hopefully you can see the difference in, you can't tell them they can't talk to your kids if they've had a drink because you just can't prove it and you can't back it up.
But you can say and if they've had one or two drinks and they're talking to your kids and your kids don't even know it, fine, right? But if they're like sloppy drunk or maybe they start fights and they're angry or they're being nasty or some bad's happening, just end the call, right? Now, All that being said, that's my therapeutic advice.
I'm not a lawyer and if you have to let them talk for so many minutes or whatever, consult your lawyer about that, okay? This is my therapeutic advice, not the law advice. I hope that's helpful. Let's see if you guys have any questions. Heaven Ban says, I haven't seen my daughter since [00:42:00] a few days before Christmas.
How long do I wait to go out and look for her again? I think it's fine to look for your daughter. Is it like, literally like walking the streets looking for them? Or is it like sending a message? Is it okay to send a message? Unless they've told you do not contact me, do not talk to me, do not come around me, then yeah, I think it's plenty fine to reach out to your loved one and to try to find them.
Now, if you think something bad's happened, like something, Nefarious. You can report that a missing person, right? If you think they're just avoiding you and they've just run off with their boyfriend using drugs or whatever, then that's a slightly different situation. And I think it's okay to look, but I wouldn't stalk them.
Obviously I wouldn't spend every day, all day doing it. I would make some effort to let them know that you still care and that the door is still open, basically. Let's see here. Marie says my ex lied for two years, so much BS, his excessive drug use and all the cheating, no trust and credibility, I'd rather deal with the truth than be lied to, we are no [00:43:00] longer, it hurts, but I finally free.
Because sometimes a lot of these things, Marie, it's already, but they're not admitting it and it makes you feel crazy because it's like, They're just trying to deny it and you already know it and it is infuriating and it's really hard to build trust with someone who you know is outright lying to you and you've asked them and asked them.
I totally get it. So I'm glad that you have found your freedom and your peace. I hope this was helpful for you to hear about some guidelines on what to do if you are the addictive person, what to tell and not tell. I'll see you guys next week. Bye everybody. Thanks for listening to our audio, but did you know these episodes are recorded live on YouTube?
Join us Thursdays at 1 p. m. Eastern to participate in the discussion, ask questions, give and get feedback. Any featured links discussed in this episode can be found in the show notes. And lastly, my goal is to spread recovery faster than addiction is spreading, and I can't do it alone. [00:44:00] You can help support my mission by leaving a review for this podcast or sharing it with a friend.
