AI Edits from Plan Ahead for What's AFTER Treatment - So You're Not Sorry
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[00:00:00] Kim and I see so many clients who are so focused on getting their loved one into treatment, which is a great goal. It's a great goal if the person needs treatment. ~Unfortunately, what we see is that is the goal, and once that goal is achieved, check that's all done. ~And that's their primary focus.
That's their single focus, to be honest. And what we see is that's a great focus, but one that needs to be looked at through a different lens. In that there needs to be something beyond treatment because of brain recovery, which we'll talk about in just a second. But there needs to be a different lens, more of a timeline and a strategy and a process that's going to keep the person from treatment ultimately to sobriety.
Because sobriety is the goal, not treatment. And I think sometimes people get really confused that the goal is treatment. And so today what we wanna talk about is. The goal of sobriety and how to get a plan for that instead of focusing primarily and only on the goal of getting our loved one into treatment.
Treatment's a great first step, but really we need to look at the next steps. ~So we think those are the most important steps, is why we wanna talk about them. ~Our definition for treatment in this video is either detox, three to 10 days [00:01:00] of medical detox and then 30, 60, whatever days of fourth level care treatment where we go away to a facility.
All right. So beyond that we're looking at 30 days, 30 to 45 days. We have. Beginning of brain recovery so you can hear the detox in a 30 day treatment stay, and then we bring our loved one home. There's no brain recovery, so that's why there's a problem. I wanna look at this today from really like a metaphor, and some of you, most of, you're probably not nearly as old as I am, but I remember when the lunar module landed on the moon and Neil Armstrong took those first famous steps ~and the lunar module, if you guys remember, looked like my glass.~
And it came down and it got closer and closer in this hushed environment. And as it got closer, it began to put out legs and they came down and out and down. And it didn't just put out one leg, 'cause then lunar module would've come down like this. ~To me, that's what happens after detox. One leg.~
It didn't come down on two because then it would be wobbly, ~which would be 30 days of treatment. ~It didn't come [00:02:00] down on three, it came down on 12. And each of these legs came down and then found its own unique depth on the surface of the moon. 'cause we'd never been there and we didn't know if it was cratered or dusty or what exactly.
So each leg very slowly found its footing and it found solidarity and the module was able to land safely, securely, and the rest is history. To me, this metaphor is particularly appropriate for recovery, and we need to build as many of these legs, or what Kim and I would call scaffolding aspects to ensure that our loved ones not only get the treatment that they need, but they also have the environment, the procedures in place.
The things in place that will keep them. Firmly landed on the land of sobriety. So today what we wanna talk about is what does that look like? What are those things? What are scaffolding? ~What does that look like? ~And not that there's one way, but [00:03:00] what are some of those many ways? And we wanna talk about it from two levels because there are two levels.
One is young adults who are going to go to treatment and then not come home, and the other is established adults. Kim, let's talk first about. ~The first. The first ~young adults or ~young kids? Young people. Yeah. ~Young kids. We strongly recommend that they go, ~that they, ~and let's qualify that for 17, 17 and up.
'cause before that's a different category. And that's a really hard treatment to even get into pre that's a tough, that's hard to scaffold. But 17. 17, and I would say there's not really an age as far as what would cut off a young adult versus an established an adult. But I would say it's what their life looks like.
So if they're married, if they have a career established in the city that they live in, if they have children in the city that they live in, I would say those would be qualifiers. That would put them more into the adult, older adult status because ~they it, in all the things I said, ~it would be really hard and possibly devastating to create a life ~outside of.~
Outside of their town that they live in. So for young adults we want them to go somewhere else and get sober. [00:04:00] And then eventually get into recovery because ~that's, ~it's easier to stay in recovery versus coming home and not having any of the social support as a young person and be able to maintain sobriety.
And because they know how to get high at home, they know how to get drunk at home. ~They know how to be sick at home. They don't know how to be, ~they don't know how to be well at home. And so when we're looking at a young person, ~it would be, ~we want 'em to be able to get serotonin and oxytocin, and this is true for older adults as well.
So the serotonin is gonna be our pride chemical. It's gonna be our content chemical. It's gonna be that I like who I am and I like my life chemical. The other one is oxytocin, which is gonna be our love chemical. I'm bonded to myself, to my loved ones, to my life, to a system above me. I'm bonded to something much bigger and greater than me, and I get oxytocin.
I contribute or I feel that bond. And so when we look at young people though, part of the mistakes that we see is they don't have enough fi financial skin in their own game. So we need to make sure that part of that scaffolding is that they have financial responsibility and they get serotonin from that.
They also may get a little bit of oxytocin depending on what they're living in their, [00:05:00] what that serotonin is attached to. We also wanna make sure that they have a good sense of independence so that they feel proud of their life. They feel like they have a sense of autonomy. ~Anything else you wanna add on that piece?~
Cam, I think that's really important for the disease of addiction to understand is that when we bring them home and they don't have anything, ~Kim just talked about, ~they don't have any financial skin in the game, they don't have any autonomy, it is super easy for that addiction to say, why not?
And get its little foot back in the door because it can, when they emerge from sober living or whatever level of treatment they're going to as financially independent and. Autonomous as far as living and taking care of myself, it's much harder for the disease to get its foot in the door because the answer that, that the person would say is, yeah, that might be great, but I can't pay my rent, or I can't make my car payment, or I'll be kicked out of sober living, or my roommates will leave me, or whatever those things are that keeps this, ~I would say maybe hurdles instead of the brake system, ~but it keeps hurdles for the disease to have to jump over that.
It usually doesn't jump over [00:06:00] if there are enough of them. And so with the older adults though, it's different because just like I said before, we. For people that are married, they have their careers, their children are in the town. It doesn't make sense for them to go to a different city, a different town, get sober and stay there.
~They're not going to get serotonin. They're not going to get oxytocin, and it is just illogical. ~And so for the older adults we want them to be able to go to detox, go to treatment that might be closer to home, and they might do better if it's closer to home so that their family has more involvement so ~that they're, ~that it doesn't feel so devastating for them.
It may have to be far away, just depending on. What's available and what kind of treatment you're looking for. But when they get home, and this is the part that's important for older adults, is there needs to be some form of accountability built in. And this built in accountability. Really, it's best if it's established while they're at treatment.
That could be drug testing, that could be a sober link or some form of a sober device ~That could be a, Hey you need after you come back from treatment, you need to be in this, three quarters house. ~And this is how our family's gonna reestablish contact. But there needs to be some form of plan that the person that's struggling with addiction.
They are held accountable too. And if there's a slip, if there's, something that happens, then the [00:07:00] family can deal with it in that moment. But one of the biggest mistakes that I see, and I'm assuming you see it too, Campbell, is the, let's look the other way, because it's just once or it just happened, or I don't wanna accuse them of doing something, so I'm afraid to do a drug test, or I'm afraid to put a sober link on the table since we didn't have it established.
So I think it's important to really get this plan. A good plan before they come home. And if you miss it or you didn't think of something and later on you're like, oh man, I should have done that. It's not too late. Just push it in. Be able to really allow yourself to make changes as necessary.
I fully agree with that, but I think ~you're, ~what you've said is super important, which is get it in place. ~And I think this is where people get stuck. ~I got him to treatment now I'm afraid to rock the boat. And we say rock the boat early, ~as in. ~If it's a 30 day program, tell them after ~the week of ~week one, work with their counselor, whoever you can get to and just say, Hey, coming home's not an option.
Or, this is what I'm envisioning your return ~home into the returning back to our ~home would look like ~or even back to our city. ~And go ahead and get that plan out of your mouth. Into their ears so that [00:08:00] the treatment center and the counselor have plenty of time to sell that and put it in place.
What happens so often, so sadly, often is that everyone agrees to all this, but we don't put it in place and then the person comes home and they're first like, oh, I just want a couple days. I wanna sleep in my own bed, and I just wanna have some really good food. ~That makes wonderful sense. ~But this is not a college kid coming home for the first time Christmas break because what the disease will say is.
We've been home for three days and we haven't even thought about using, so do we really need to go to an AA meeting? Do I really need to set up the sober link? Like I feel like I've got this and I just wanna get back to normal. I just wanna get back to my regular life. I don't wanna have to live within this, the confines of recovery or sobriety.
That's the mistake that Soberlink should be activated and being used prior to leaving treatment. They should already have had a appointment with the counselor set up and hopefully a Zoom session already under their belt, have gone on to some Zoom AA meetings, or NA meetings, or [00:09:00] Celebrate Recovery or whatever they're gonna participate in.
Get these things in place so that when they come home, it's a much more seamless. Addiction loves change, and so when we come home as an as established adult, the addiction's gonna try to get its fingers in because remember, this is remember, addiction is an entity and it's pretty quiet in treatment because it really doesn't have anything it can talk about.
So everyone's oh, I've got this. Like I feel confident I've changed. I've got this. I'm good. But then we get home and the opportunities begin to exist and the addiction gets louder and louder like the Song and Animal House until everyone is dancing. And by everyone I mean all those nerve receptors.
And then we're right back into it. So I think it's really important to remember addiction's not gonna play fair, you guys. It just doesn't play fair, so don't be ~afa ~afraid to play fair with your voice, with your requirements, with your demands, with the knowledge that you've gained from talking to counselors or reading or [00:10:00] zooming, or YouTubing, or whatever your source of information is.
You hear good information. Use it, say it, hold it. ~This is where you, ~this is where you gotta get some boundaries and just hold them. I think this topic ~of ~is strategic. It's a timeline. It's a process. ~And if you buy into that. ~Fully buy into that then all that we're talking about today and what's gonna need to come from your lips, which is, I'm not comfortable with that.
~This is what I'm looking at. I'm sorry. ~This is what I'm gonna need for you to come back to the house. Those things then they're in place and your much more likelihood of getting your lunar module firmly onto the land of recovery. Recovery is the goal y'all. Recovery is the goal, not treatment.
And just try to remember that because I think that's where we lose a lot of people is first of all, they don't, they get their personal ~loved one, their ~loved one into treatment, and then they ~don't even, we ~don't see 'em again until the relapse. And then they're like, the other thing I wanna add on to that is even if, let's say that they never use and you're administering these drug tests and they're clean [00:11:00] with, bouncing off what Campbell said with addiction being an entity, when that entity knows that there isn't an accountability process in place, it's quieter.
Because it doesn't say, oh, I could just stop off at QT and, do a little something. They're not gonna know. Or I'll be sober enough by the time my loved one gets home ~there. ~When we have these accountability processes in place, it really helps the addiction be ~quiet, ~quieter. It also helps the person that's struggling with newly being sober at home, it helps them ~just ~ease into, this is what sobriety looks like, because it takes the option off the table quicker than if that ~accountable.~
Accountability process is not set in place. So even though it may sound rigid, it may sound like you're being a parole officer. It really is a very kind thing that you can do for the person that you love and for yourself. All right, ~so let's see if what, ~let's answer some questions now.
What does qualifier mean? Kim? Qualifier, you nodded. Is any anything that is going to put you in the category that we're talking about? So a qualifier for someone [00:12:00] that's going to be have insulin treatment would be diabetes. A qualifier for someone that might be on stimulant would be a diagnosis of A DHD.
So a qualifier gonna be anything that puts you in the category of the topic that's being discussed. So with addiction, a qualifier could be using in spite of bad things happening. It could be crime, it could be multiple DUIs, which would go into the first qualifier that I said. It could be a, I'm obsessed with either obtaining my drug, keeping my drug available, or recovering from using my drug.
All of those would be examples of qualifiers for an addict for addiction. ~Yeah.~
All right. When my husband got sober two years ago, we could not find a hospital that did detox. Is that a thing of the past? No, it's not ~a thing of the past. It's ~a thing of the past ~in that only, ~it's harder to get into because insurance only covers it if there's benzodiazepines involved, which could be alcohol or Klonopin or Xanax, anything in that family.
And so it's harder to get your person in because you more often have to pay out of pocket, but there's lots and lots of detox centers. [00:13:00] Lots.
Hi. If 30 day inpatient treatment just isn't an option, what would the closest best replacement be? My husband is fearful. He'll get into trouble at work. If he has some missed a month, then well, that's the addiction talking. ~Right there 'cause and it might be legit that might also have some truth to it.~
But I think even if we speak to the truth. What are we gonna give up if we don't get into treatment? Because eventually he's going to lose that job. If the, addiction ends in three ways. It ends in institutions death or recovery. And so it may take a while until that job is jeopardized, but ultimately, when we're looking at either treatment, if that is the option that is, that the level of care that's needed, if we put a job before that, we're really just kicking the can down the road because it's only a matter of time ~until that, ~until addiction's probably gonna come after that job.
But that being said, since this is the situation, doesn't wanna go, doesn't wanna lose his job, let's meet them where they are on that, which would be. You could do an IOP in the evenings, ~which would, ~you could still keep his job. He could go to AA or NA meetings depending on what would be [00:14:00] applicable. He could get a sponsor, he could get an addiction counselor.
He could go to Celebrate Recovery, any of those things. And if he does that determinedly, he could agree to drug testing. He could agree to a sober link, whatever. Again, I don't know the situation, but if you put enough of that scaffolding in, it could be successful. But it also could be successful in a different way, which would be all that would fail, and he would realize, I'm gonna lose my job anyway, ~what we Kim just said, ~and I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree to go and then come back and use all these scaffolding things as aftercare if those things were really strong enough.
Unilaterally, then there wouldn't be such a thing as a treatment. So we, our opinion is that those things are fabulous post-treatment. Once you get some brain recovery coming in and some sort of awareness of the situation, those things can keep you sober. It's difficult to get sober with just those things, not impossible, difficult.
But they can't, to piggyback on what Campbell said, they can work as [00:15:00] wonderful ways for the person to realize how sick they are and to meet them where they might be if this is a bargaining tool to help move them through this bargaining stage faster. And I can remember when we ran an IOP, which is an intensive outpatient program back in the day, Kim and Amber and I did.
And it was in the evening, and there were, we met with spouses, partners, and parents who were like, we just want him an IOP. And we could say, this is not the right level of care. This is not gonna stop the disease. This is not, and it was, ours was super expensive. We'd say, you're wasting your money. And they'd say, I want him to do IOP.
So a lot of times the family also needs to benefit from the fact that this level of care is not sufficient, whether it's for an adult or a younger person. Don't be afraid to try a lower level of care if that's what your heart is oh God, I can't do without him for 30 days 'cause I need help with the children.
Or he's saying, I don't wanna get fired, then you could try the lower level of care. I just don't want you to naively [00:16:00] believe wholeheartedly. Whew, that's done like I did. Like I'm that fool. So I get it guys, but I want you to just, if you need to try it. But just be aware that this may not be the final resting place.
My 30-year-old son has been sober for seven weeks. He lives with his dad. When would be reasonable for him to get a job? NOW. Now, as soon as now before we, so you can't just walk into a room and say you have to get a job. Two things. You have to create a need for the job. So you either need to be contributing financially to live here.
You're responsible for your gas, your car insurance, whatever. You have to create a need, and then you have to deliver this news with a fair and feasible plan, which is it's December 18th, so you could say by January 15th we expect you to take over these financial responsibilities. So that gives them a month.
~To find a job and have a paycheck in hand. ~So you can't just walk in and say, OBTW starting tomorrow, you have to pay rent. So think that through, [00:17:00] but absolutely. Now I would've said, if you were coming into my home in the next 30 days, we'll expect a thousand dollars a month for you to live in our home. So now.
My alcoholic wife was sober for five weeks, had a two week relapse, and is now 10 days sober. She's an introvert and won't ask for outside help, AA or a sponsor. She says she doesn't have cravings now. What support options are available? ~Oh yeah, she's extremely stubborn too. For you, there's a guest room at Kim's house that you might wanna come with.~
~I don't know, Kim, what do you think on that one? ~I think all the things we've said before as far as I-O-P-P-H-P and I do think that's addiction talking as far as I'm an introvert and there. I ran plenty of groups. Campbells ran plenty of groups. Introverts do really well in group once they get comfortable, an introvert, just think of them as they're slower to warm up.
They're gonna share less, they're more particular about what they share, who they share it with and when they share. But they're still people. So they benefit from group and once they're connected in a group, they're generally pretty invested and they can get a lot out of it. So as far as the, I'm an introvert and that's not gonna work for me, that's a cop out.
[00:18:00] So I think as far as what options are available, ~all the options that we've listed, but mostly ~whatever option she's willing to do. Which it sounds like not many right now, based on what you're saying, which is where my brain is thinking that might be addiction talking. Yeah, I think it's addiction.
Y'all, Kim and I are introverts. ~And we do fine on, we do okay on this, but ~we do fine in groups. We do fine in the office. We do fine. It's where you. Put your energy. She's not gonna have as much energy as an extrovert. She's probably not gonna be signing up to make the coffee at AA on day one, but there are millions of introverts who are sober.
~I just think, ~I think she's in the bargaining process. I think she had the relapse and now has 10 days, and she's I don't need it, and I'm not comfortable with it. My guess is. You're probably looking at another potential relapse and maybe at that point you'll be able to say, Hey, for you to live here, I need you to be doing these things and go into that, those boundaries that you can set up.
If not, then you probably should sign up for the Beyond Boundaries course so that you can figure out how to be comfortable with not holding boundaries while you live with someone struggling with addiction or holding whatever [00:19:00] boundaries you can hold. 'cause sometimes the India boundaries can be an internal boundary.
Good point.
Oh, is that it? No more questions. All right. We have eight more minutes, so let's think for a second. Is there anything else, Kim, that we can touch on? ~For the people watching this for the, for what they can do for themselves? ~I think we can piggybacking off of the last question that we got.
I want you guys, a very common thing is to see the families work really hard to offer support or to find the next solution, and that, that is great in so many ways. And I want all of you guys to be prepared and ready and have lots of options in your back pocket. So when the time comes, you know what card to play.
I want you to also recognize that when you're dealing with someone that's being stubborn because they're letting the addiction grow, and that entity is just silently growing and they're prepping for a relapse, I want you to be able to distinguish between the difference, because the more you're trying to push and support when someone else is saying, no, I'm rejecting, you actually might be doing more harm than good.
And so it's a really difficult line to, to find. I do want you guys to be aware that there is a line, [00:20:00] and so I want you to develop your awareness a, around the fact that line exists and what does it look like in your own home. Yeah, I agree. So two more questions. Our live schedule for the next two weeks is there won't be one.
The Thursday is a major holiday for both of the weeks. So there we just, we won't, we'll be back on January. Eighth, which is the Thursday following the New Year's holiday. There's also a comment in here about, the point of view that addiction is not a disease, that it's a criminal offense that people have control of.
We don't believe in that at all. We believe it's a disease. We believe the brain is al organically altered. Does it lead to criminal offenses? Absolutely. Because the brain is constantly trying to rationalize and justify anything and everything it has to, in order to get whatever it is, it needs money.
I don't know what's going on but yes, we believe it's a disease, not just a criminal. ~How to bring to the surface. ~My father is an enabler by silence over decades of drinking. In my mother, he doesn't like [00:21:00] to talk about inappropriate her inappropriately and believes her not being violent and paying bills is good enough.
It's really difficult you guys. To talk a spouse or anyone who doesn't want to believe that there's a problem into there being a problem. The only thing you can do is in going back to what Kim just said, is stop pointing it out and let them see it for themselves and or put boundaries around your interaction with it so that you're solid.
But we see this all the time. Husbands just or wives sometimes, but mostly husbands. Really, I have two clients like this right now. As long as like the mom's not causing that much trouble. She still goes to work. She's still makes lasagna once a month. So is it really that bad? My own dad was like that with my mom.
So I get that. There's really not much you can do about, just set boundaries for yourself about how you'll protect your heart your time, your emotions, yourself, as it needs to be.
~She doesn't want her to mom to hurt herself or lose memory, and they did nothing. ~[00:22:00] I think you can try to have heart to heart conversations with her when she's sober and just express that. But until something major shifts as in either she says, I need help, and your father hears her, or something that you don't want to happen happens, and your father says, oh, wow, I totally missed this.
Like we do have a problem. ~It's, ~I just don't want you to damage your relationship with your dad by harping ~on this or focusing ~on this or beating it into the ground because it will damage your relationship with him ultimately, if he ~doesn't want to, ~can't hear it. It just could be a question of, not that he's stubborn or, but he's maybe incapable of hearing it because it's too frightening, it's too scary, it causes too much anxiety.
Remember. So your dad is codependent, which is not a bad word. It is an anxiety disorder based upon fear. So ~think ~if you can really wrap your head around that, that's most likely your father's perspective and where he is coming from, you might be able to talk to him differently. You might be able to understand it differently.
It might make you feel better about it, because most [00:23:00] of the people, like I would say 99.99% are not stubborn or resistant maliciously or. Outta spite. They just, it's codependence and this disease, that's why it's a family disease, is we all get super codependent and we're terrified that something will or will not happen if we do or do not do something or say something.
And that you can just hear in that sentence that's like a giant quandary and it co puts you just like constantly on this seesaw and it's really hard to find this exact even balance where you can. Move forward, right? You're usually way up here in Fear Land or way down here in anger land or way down here in confusion land.
And so you just keep propagating the system. But I just think if you could hear that from your dad's perspective, that might help your engagement with him.
~This person is putting up the definition of a disease. I don't see it yet. ~I went to when I took my youngest son to treatment when he was 17, the psychiatrist his residential treatment said that when you organically alter an organ, that's the definition of [00:24:00] disease and we are organically altering the brain with addiction by the creation of extra neuroreceptors that shouldn't be there based upon the addiction's need to build them.
All right, hopefully this was helpful. I put links in for if you need a consultation with one of us, or if you want to join our membership, which has the live call every Wednesday, ~which will have the holiday schedule, which the live call will be on Tuesday next week and the week of New Year's. Instead of on Wednesday.~
But that's a great place to ask a question. You can ask it verbally or you can post it and Kim and I'll answer it, but that's a great way to get something asked without having to book a session. ~So ~plus there's just a font of information in that membership as well as tons of fabulous people that you can get some really good support from.
So hopefully this was helpful you guys, and we will see you in a couple weeks. All right. Bye-bye.
