The Impact of Alcohol on Relationships_ A Deeper Look
===
[00:00:00] Earlier this week, I got an email from one of our regular followers, and it was a fella wanting to share his story with you guys. And his experience was all about being married to someone with an alcohol problem and how it destroyed their marriage. And in the process, destroyed all their hopes and dreams.
And he decided to share that written. You can actually see it on the website if you want to on our blog, but it prompted me, it triggered me to want to go a little deeper into just how. Alcohol really does affect relationships in so many ways. And as usual, I want to try to talk about it from both perspectives from the perspective of the person who has struggles with alcohol and also from the perspective of their family members.
So we can gain insight into how couples and families get stuck in these Cyclical [00:01:00] arguments and sometimes get so stuck that they can't seem to get out of it and they don't, and they just keep either getting worse and worse. Sometimes end up in divorce and thankfully, sometimes they find a way and they come out of it.
So let's talk a little bit about. What is the process that couples go to when there's an alcohol problem? Usually what happens, is in the beginning, if it's an adult relationship, usually both people in the relationship drink to some degree, but sometimes one of those people as the relationship goes on and matures, maybe, you get older you, buy a house, you have kids, you get grown up jobs, and then one of the people in the couple, their drinking will either slow down or normalize, or sometimes they stop drinking, but the other person's drinking not only continues, but will continue to grow.
[00:02:00] And then there becomes this conflict between the two people about whether or not the alcohol is okay, how much alcohol is too much, and the person who is still drinking alcohol, maybe drinking alcohol to excess, feels like their partner Is the one that changed because they'll frequently often say things to me like They knew I drank when they got with me Like we used to drink together and they used to be fun and now what happened?
And they feel like that their partner's the one that changed on the other side of that the family member the partner of the person who is, drinking feels like that the person is not just continuing to drink, but drinking excessively. And some of the conflict comes in that maybe the person is not drinking a ton more than they used to drink, but some things happen in life that make it feel less, more Appropriate in certain seasons of life, like when you're raising small kids like when you have to get up early and go to your big [00:03:00] boy and girl jobs and things like that.
And so both people end up feeling you've changed or you've changed, and then you get locked into this. Power struggle is what happens and the power struggle just gets stronger and stronger. On one hand, we all know that no one likes to be controlled and usually what happens is the person who drinks less tries to Control how much the other person is drinking now a lot of times They don't even realize that what they're doing is controlling, but they try to Do some subtle things like hey, you've already had a couple of drinks like don't you think that's enough?
But it's a reminder sometimes they'll do things like, hey, we're going to go to a certain event promise me you're not going to drink more than whatever amount, they do small things like that. And then that will escalate usually to like. Bigger things like, for example trying to control the amount of money that the [00:04:00] person either has or that the person can spend on alcohol or trying to control where that person goes or who that person can be with.
And the more that goes on, the more you get engaged in this sort of push pull dynamic, because as humans, we naturally have this reflex And we all have this if once we get Pat up to about the age of two, we have this reflex of I'm the boss of me, right? Even a two year old, even a little kid does not want to be controlled.
And the more you try to power struggle with a little kid or an adult, the more they lock in. In fact, I feel like a lot of times what happens in these relationships is, The two people get so locked into the power struggle over who's the boss of who and who has the control and what the rules should be that actually slows down the process of recovery and slows down the process of people figuring out where they really stand on things because we get in this gridlock of.
The problem in the situation, and this is really just the [00:05:00] first layer, but we're going to go into some some deeper layers of it. But this power struggle really reigns over the whole relationship, and both people are walking on eggshells. Eventually, what will happen is the person who's drinking will start to sneak drink.
Because they feel like they're either going to be in trouble if they drink or they're going to have to hear it or they're going to have to feel, the negative vibes or whatever. So they start to sneak drink. And when the sneak drinking happens, the whole process really starts to escalate because usually when people are sneak drinking, they usually, start drinking more heavy duty kind of things, like a higher alcohol percentage in A lot of times they go to vodka because it's clear because They feel like it doesn't have a smell and it's easier to hide.
And not only that, but when they're hiding their drinking, they're way more prone to do things like drink and drive, because very frequently what happens is the person will get in this pattern of stopping to get the alcohol in their way Let's say home [00:06:00] from work or home from an event and they know their partner doesn't want them to drink So they're trying to drink whatever they're going to drink for the night in the car on their way home Before they get to the house Now some people will do things like they'll stop store They'll buy it and then they'll go Maybe into their neighborhood and go up to the where the neighborhood pool or whatever it is and sit up there And drink it and then drive from there to home because Trying to minimize the time that they're actually driving while having been drinking, but you still, you get this dynamic of they start to sneak and very often it creates this drinking and driving scenario, which then escalates the power struggle even more because now we're into like a safety issue.
And so now the. Partner and the spouse feels even more need to intervene and do something because it's not just, Hey, I don't think this is good for you. It's Hey, this is completely unsafe for you and for other people. And the urgency and the fear really creeps up at this point. And when they are [00:07:00] drinking and they're sneak drinking, not only are they drinking heavier, heavy duty stuff, but they're trying to drink it really fast.
So there's less. Awareness and control over how much they're drinking because you got to imagine if someone's sneak it out into the garage while your head's turned to chug back a little bit of alcohol, it's something heavy duty and they're chugging it down fast and to the partner.
It feels oh my gosh, they had one beer and they're like totally fall down drunk. What is wrong with them? Like maybe this is a medical issue But a lot of times what's happening is that there's a lot more drinking going on than you actually see up front now in very late stage alcoholism people will have reduced tolerance so people can this is really far into alcoholism though, if they have one beer, they'll be totally like intoxicated, but that's usually Very far into alcoholism, like to the point where your liver is super damaged and it just cannot filter it out So one beer just like really does put you over the edge So that can happen but most of the time in the situations that we see in our [00:08:00] office It's more the sneak drinking thing and maybe the partner spouse sees you have a glass of wine or a beer or something like that But they don't know about the three drinks you have, they had, you have when their back was turned or something like that.
So you got that. So that's the first layer and that's the most Visible outward layer that you can see is this power struggle thing that's going on underneath That you've got this brewing of hurt feelings and resentment on both sides I know it would be easy to think well, of course the family member's upset and they're the ones that have the resentment but in our office, we've been treating this for a long time.
And I have to say that the hurt feelings and resentment is pretty equal. It's equal on both sides. And And that just contributes to this ongoing power struggle and disconnect. Not only that you got the secret keeping and the hiding, right? We talked about that, but when you're holding secrets, even if you're not consciously aware of it, you start emotionally distancing from your partner [00:09:00] because it's you don't want to get into too deep of a conversation because it's like subconsciously feel like if I talk too much, if I let my guard down, my secrets are going to fly out.
Which is actually. Totally could be true, especially if your problem is drinking, because that takes your filter off, which we'll talk some more about in just a minute. But so you start emotionally distancing yourself. So all your conversations, even conversations just about like other stuff and regular stuff, become superficial.
It's like you're playing the game of having these other conversations, but you're not really like emotionally connected. In fact, you're really just thinking I can't wait till you shut up and go on and turn your back so I can go do what I want to do or whatever. And so you've got more and more emotional distancing happening.
Now, layer on top of those couple of layers and factor in the fact that when people drink specifically. As opposed to some other substances, it takes their filter completely off, which means they're emotionally raw, which means there's nothing to filter [00:10:00] out how they experience their emotions, how they communicate their emotions.
And because of that, you get a completely unfiltered version of whatever this person's going through at the moment or whatever they've even just been thinking about at the moment. Now, the reason that, that Cause I frequently will see, most of you guys know in our office, I usually see the person that has the, that's struggling with a substance.
And they'll say to me especially the, those people that see me that are, that tend to be P people pleasing or avoidant, that sort of thing. They'll say when I drink, she just doesn't like it. Cause I tell her how I really feel and they don't really see the problem with that, but there is a problem with that.
Maybe this people pleasing person really does need to speak up and get their needs met better But when you're drinking you do that in a completely inappropriate way because it is not filtered and relationships require Filter and a lot of people will try to hide behind the and this is on both sides Family member in person with the alcohol feel like [00:11:00] it's the truth All I did was say the truth and they hide behind the it's the truth Making something okay to say but the truth really shouldn't be used as a weapon, especially if We're talking about an important relationship that you value and it's your partner.
So you need to value that relationship So when we're saying I just thought on the truth or how you know, I was really feeling It's whatever you're saying when you're intoxicated is coming out distorted Magnified unfiltered and there may be glimpses of the truth in there, but it's just completely like Wonky.
And and you probably would never say it the way you said it if you were sober. And that does a lot of damage to relationships. Now, y'all got, we're three layers in, right? We already got a lot of complications here. Now layer in on the top, specifically with alcohol, the fact that It causes those memory disruptions, right?
Like you have the blackouts, which means the person is awake. They're [00:12:00] functioning, but they're not really like in the driver's seat. They're not really operating the vehicle. It's just on autopilot. And because of that, They don't really remember the things that they said or that they did or how bad it was.
They may have like glimpses or little like windows into things that happen, but they don't really quite remember everything that they said or did, and they don't quite remember how bad the behavior was, because even while the behavior is happening, you're experiencing that behavior through a very intoxicated lens, right?
And it, it may feel good inside, whatever's happening, but the behavior on the outside can be very toxic, disruptive, and sometimes even dangerous. And so when you layer in that memory issue on the top of it, that's where you get this whole problem with alcoholic denial, which is a little bit more quite a bit more, I think, difficult for [00:13:00] people to see when they have an alcohol problem versus another kind of substance problem because they actually don't remember how bad it was.
Now, eventually get to the point where they know that they may have said something. So they do these weird temperature checks the next day where they're trying to fill out like the mood of their partner, where they're doing things like looking at their phone to see if they texted or called anybody or said anything offhanded on their Facebook page or anything like that.
Because they're like, Oh gosh, what did I say? I don't even remember what happened last night. And then. On top of that, like sometimes conversations happen and then maybe you're the family member, you talk to the person, you didn't even realize they were intoxicated, y'all had this whole plan about what was going to happen this weekend or whatever.
And then this weekend comes and they don't remember it. And you're like, What the heck you agreed to that and the person doesn't really want to admit that they don't remember it So they'll either do some kind of gaslighting like no, we didn't or They'll do some kind of dismissive manipulative technique to try to [00:14:00] evade it and then It's even more concerning because then the family member starts to think, Oh my God, this person has like dementia.
This person has like something's bad wrong with them and their brain. Because usually the family member has no idea the amount of alcohol that's being consumed behind the scenes. Because there's a lot of effort that goes into trying not to seem intoxicated. Especially when we get to that sneak drinking.
part. And so sometimes you think you're talking to them and they're completely fine, but you're not even aware that they're not. And they try to, they get good at playing it off. So you start to think maybe there really is another issue here. Maybe it's something medical. And the whole thing just gets messier and messier and more comprehensive.
Another piece that's important that happens here is, and some of you have heard me talk about this before, but I think it's important to mention is that when people are intoxicated with alcohol, frequently, they'll start to think about and remember past bad things that have happened, either like heartache, grief [00:15:00] resentments And even trauma, like even big traumatic things, and they'll dwell on those things and they'll talk about those things every time they're upset, they'll bring it up and they'll talk about it.
So then that makes the family member think, okay, it's the trauma. It's the trauma. that bad thing. They just haven't grieved their mother. It's that bad thing that happened in their childhood. They just haven't gotten over this job loss or whatever it is because that's what the person talks about when they're drinking.
And so they think it gives the impression that it is that trauma that's causing the drinking. When, in my experience, Other people feel differently. Everybody's got an opinion about it. But in my experience a lot of times it's the alcohol that's retriggering the trauma versus the other way around but it can feel that way because it's like Every time the person gets drunk or whatever, they're bringing up that one thing that happened It's like they can't let it go And it's because you've got that unfiltered thing in and they ruminate on it because when you drink your thought process slows down or Really slow.[00:16:00]
And so whatever the thought is that's in there, it's just like that one track. Thinking, right? It's just whatever that is. It's just going around in the loop and loop. And as the person re experiences it, it's like it happened yesterday and it can even be more traumatizing or more hurtful or the grief feels even heavier, worse today than it felt 10 years ago.
And it leads the family member down all the wrong paths. And usually the partner is doing everything that they can to help. They just don't know how to help, right? And so they try to get the person to slow the drinking down. Which sounds good on the surface, but frequently this, if they, when you do that, you're really just slowing down the whole process of the person figuring it out, because if you're successful at getting them to slow it down, then they, it gives them the impression that.
They're managing it much better than maybe they really are, or they get so good at hiding it that they convince themselves, see, I'm managing it. They don't even know. It's not even affecting them. They don't even know half the time when [00:17:00] I've been drinking. So they're just making a big deal about it.
That's the things that they're telling themselves. So you can easily see how this can. Put a couple in a deadlock, right? The family member tries to control the drinking and when that doesn't work, they start to think, Oh my gosh, it must be all these underlying issues. So then they start chasing that, line of thinking down and they may send you to a hundred psychiatrist and they may try to get you to go in for trauma counseling.
And please hear me when I say, I'm not saying that people don't have trauma, right? There is a strong link between trauma and every kind of addiction, but one of the questions that I ask families to figure this out, I will say, did you know this person before the drinking was a problem? And usually, if it's the partner, they'll say yes.
And I'll say, was the trauma, impacting their life a lot before the drinking got to be a big problem. And usually they'll say no, like they're together yes, it was there and it was a thing. And maybe they had a few triggers, but it [00:18:00] wasn't like they weren't functioning or they thought about it all the time or anything like that.
But when the drinking starts, it's like the trauma, it's like the ghost of past or haunting you very actively when you're in that active addiction. And it leads family members down all the wrong paths of how to help, how to fix it and that sort of thing. And it's just sad because on top of all that, if you're dealing with a couple, a lot of times they're, eventually there's kids involved and that makes things.
That much more complicated because the kids begin to pick up on what's going on and even if they're not even old enough to Understand what's happening? They definitely pick up on the fact that something's wrong Or that there's this tension between the two parents or the two adults that are in the house and the kids can go either direction the kids can either They'll either side with the parent, the non drinking problem parent, and get parentified over the parent that drinks by the kid starts to watch how much the parent's drinking and measure.
And the kids sometimes will even come in and try to control it by saying daddy [00:19:00] don't drink tonight or pouring out alcohol or they get in that control thing too. Or sometimes the kids will feel like, why are you always being mean to them? And they'll side with the other parent because maybe they see that maybe the parent that drinks is the cooler one or the least strict one.
And then they'll see the non drinking parent as The bad cop and so they'll side with the other one and then you get this whole Family deadlock and then once I've all that craziness Everybody else has an opinion about it too. Grandma and grandpa and aunts and uncles and brothers and sisters Friends and workmates and everybody starts taking these sides and it becomes this giant war of who's on whose side And this power struggle and we can forget that we're all supposed to be on the same team that we love each other That we are a family that we can get through this together You But the first step in unraveling that is to figure out how to unlock that power struggle and get on the same page.
And that's why we talk about it so much on this channel about getting out of that bad guy role [00:20:00] about getting on the same page because the faster that happens, The faster the person usually Figures out that there's a problem now Sometimes that isn't as effective especially if it's gone on so bad the person is just like Fully and in stage four like they're not functional anymore.
Like it's not a matter of denial anymore It's a matter of they've just given into it. They don't even care anymore and so when you're in when they're in that position The getting out of the bag I roll it's always a good thing to do because it does help this You Family situation be better, but it doesn't necessarily help the person to figure the problem out because they've already figured it out And they've just accepted it and that can be very problematic.
So sometimes that requires a slightly different kind of intervention
all right, shristi says How big of a role does influence in love Play in getting a loved one to the finish line today My addicted loved one wanted to drink but I calmly told him [00:21:00] Please don't drink for me And he did not drink Go out and get his drink.
He's sober for three weeks and made a great decision I feel like what that means is that you guys have come a long way and in being able to communicate about this the fact that you know I'm sure you were Panicked when he wanted to drink the fact that even though you were upset you were sad you still remained calm and you said Please don't drink it and he chose not to instead of locking into a power struggle with you I feel like that's a sign of where your relationship is at and that it's in a better place.
So That's the first thing I noticed when I read your comment. And some people would say It doesn't even matter because he wanted to drink. He just didn't drink for you. And I would say I think that's fantastic. I think choosing not to drink because it's gonna hurt someone that you care about or it's gonna damage relationship.
I think that's a very good reason not to drink. So Don't listen to other people out there when they say, well, it doesn't count because they just did it for someone else. It totally counts being the kind of, how many times do we sacrifice [00:22:00] and do we compromise for the people we love?
Like all the time, every day. Decide, okay, I'll eat this for dinner because what my loved one wants to eat. We said, I'll watch this on TV because it's what I want. My loved one wants to watch. And that's part of relationships. And we don't everything, we don't always cave in, but the fact that we can compromise and think about how there are other people with needs and wants and desires, and we can take that into account.
I see it as a very good thing. So don't let people tell you, oh, that's a bad thing. That's a good thing. Isha says you're explaining my relationship to a t from the most loving man to absolutely hating me because I controlled his drinking. If he hasn't gotten help since assume new partners will express the same in time.
Is there more to that one? That was all there is to that one. I'm not sure exactly, are you saying if he hasn't gotten help, will partners say the same thing in each time? Yes, they sure will. And a lot of times that's what I tell, like the, and it is, it's mostly men that I see, but I do see some wives too, but I [00:23:00] usually say, listen, I feel like any partner you ever had would not.
Be cool with this. So don't be thinking the grass is greener and they'll usually be like, yeah, you're probably right. Yeah, if the drinking really is that problematic in most cases, any partner that they had, like they think it was just you. But there's, there's a limit to what most people are gonna feel like is okay.
Unless that partner has a drinking problem then, yeah, they're probably gonna get the same. response eventually.
Neon says, why do addicts abuse multiple substance? Because my loved one uses heroin, but if he's trying to quit, then he uses alcohol. I'm trying not to panic about the alcohol, but he can be mean. Oh, that's a super common thing. Neon is that they use one substance to help them manage the withdrawal symptoms from coming off the other.
And so using alcohol when you come off of opiates, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do, but I am saying it is a common thing to do. And [00:24:00] should you worry about the alcohol becoming a problem? Yes, it definitely can become a problem, but a lot of times people really are using it to try to help them get through the actual withdrawal symptoms, to help them be able to sleep even a little bit, to take the edge off, um, it's not the best way to go about things, but sometimes it's the best way people know to go about things.
And if they're mean when they drink, you may want to take some space. You may want to say, I'm proud of you for coming off this, I support you, but you're mean when you're drinking, so I'm going to back up a little bit. Lisa says, I'm married to an alcoholic without, I'm married an alcoholic without understanding what I was getting into.
He had done all those things, gaslighting, lying, deflecting. He does this even when he's sober though. How do I get past this and learn to trust if he is still lying and gaslighting me? And my kids from previous marriage don't want him in our home the second part of your question lisa is much more complicated I don't exactly have an answer for you [00:25:00] here other than to say that it's going to be part of his natural consequence about what the kids think and that he's going to have to figure out how to Not just regain your trust but regain their trust if that's even possible.
But I would say, how do you learn to trust them? You don't have to necessarily trust them. What you can do is trust the process. And you can realize that let's say they're trying to be sober, but you don't trust them. You don't have to trust them. There's probably a pretty good reason why you don't, but you can trust the process.
And what I mean by that is if they are drinking or using or whatever, and they're not supposed to be, it'll show itself. You don't have to look for it. You don't have to get your magnifying glass out and search for evidence. You don't have to do any of that because it'll show itself because that is the nature of addiction.
The unmanageability comes forward eventually. And usually if somebody has bad enough trauma, it comes forward pretty quickly. Trust that if they're drinking, certain things will happen, and the process happens in a certain way, and the reason I can trust it is because I've been doing this like 20 something years, [00:26:00] and it's very predictable, so trust the process, and even if you don't believe everything that they're saying, you can still be out of the bad guy role.
You don't have to call out every time you think someone is being dishonest. I have some videos about that, like when to call out laws and when not to that might be helpful for you. Amanda says, how do I lovingly detach before I snap? That's a good question. When you feel like you're getting to that breaking point I literally think you should pull back and sometimes like physically pull back, get some space from it because you're maybe watching this channel.
You're like, all right, Amber, I'm trying not to be in a bad guy role, but I'm about done with this. I totally hear you. Maybe you need to take some time away from it because there is only so much That you can take right and if you I call it having a front row seat if you're constantly having that front row seat every day You're going to run out of compassion and you're going to snap because you're human being.
I would snap. Anybody would [00:27:00] snap eventually. So sometimes you need to get, I'm not saying you have to like totally disconnect from your loved one, but you may want to just like back up, take some days to yourself, go visit someone, go do something else and spend more time away from the front row seat.
That's going to help you conserve some of your energy. Dawn says, Yesterday, my spouse took a nap on his one hour lunch break. Two hours later, I noticed he was still sleeping, so I woke him up. Is that enabling? Should I let him sleep and jeopardize his job? If the official answer to that is probably the better thing to do would have been let him sleep and jeopardize the job.
You, you're probably thinking they probably would have got mad at me and said, why didn't I wake him up? which is fair, in a normal situation where you didn't have this kind of problem, if I were oversleeping something and my spouse knew it and they didn't wake me up and tell me, I'd be mad and be like you didn't even tell me or whatever.
But in these kinds of situations, sometimes you do want to let it roll, but that can be really hard when this is your spouse, because if they lose their job, it [00:28:00] affects you. And that's where it gets super complicated between partners, right? You're like, yeah, I'm cool with that. Wish they would lose their job, but.
I got kids to take care of and that's where it gets hard.
Kate says any advice on how to have the first conversation with the addicted spouse after a month of separation? I don't know if he's ready to admit he has a problem, but I am ready to be there to help.
This is a good question. I'm just thinking about it for a second here. Okay. I would probably not dive right into it. I would fill it out temperature check because you can tell within the first few, days. minutes of talking to someone, what direction they're leaning.
Are they leaning in the, I don't want to talk about this, I'm being superficial, I'm talking about anything else? Are they coming at you still somewhat defensively? Just get a temperature check and make your conversation decisions based on the vibe that you're getting. If someone is giving you the vibe that the door is open to talk about it, then talk about it.
If you're not getting that vibe, no matter how much you want to talk about [00:29:00] it, no matter how important you think it is, it's a mistake to push the issue because especially if you're getting like a shutdown vibe or like a defensive angry vibe, it's not going to do anything, but turn on you. So just temperature check it.
Married a long time says, how do you approach them when you have discussed topics they don't remember? I literally have it on the calendar and he acts like I just put it there. Okay. If it's a really important thing, like something on the calendar that you really need them to remember or be at I don't know, maybe they agreed to take the kid to the doctor's appointment or something like that, something that's important.
If it's something that's not important. Or that I guess maybe that you can let just them miss it then maybe you want to maybe you decide to let them miss it just so they can experience a natural consequence, but sometimes that's not possible. I totally get that. You can say, hey, you probably don't remember, but and it's on the calendar and then just say what it is instead of saying.
Telling them and then saying you should remember we had it. You can just say, Hey, you might not remember, [00:30:00] but we talked, Mary, we talked about this and that. If you really need to remind them or tell them without getting the back arrow,
Lynn says my alcoholic son's wife is sabotaging him financially, emotionally in every way, but he won't let me bring it up. She is very abusive, hard to watch. All right, Lynn. I don't know your situation. I could be a hundred percent wrong here, but here's what I'm going to say.
Very often the person who has an alcohol problem is telling their parent that their spouse is crazy lunatic. And sometimes that's true, but a lot of times the reason the spouse is a crazy lunatic is because they're living with an alcoholic and it could be, maybe she's just a mean abusive, horrible person, but a lot of times these behaviors Are either out of anger because of the drinking or maybe they're like attempting to control the issue Maybe they're not dealing with it appropriately But you as a mom are going to have completely different expectations Of your son than you would if he was your partner So [00:31:00] realizing that a partner is going to be hurt in a different way, you know a parent is scared A spouse is pissed and that's just the way it is.
And if it is your spouse, you'd be ticked off to trust me. So I'm not saying that she's not, I'm just saying you can't buy in completely to your son's narrative. You're telling me as an alcoholic, every alcoholic I've ever seen in my entire career tells me that their wife is the problem. So I'm not saying that she's not, and sometimes they are, but I'm just saying You gotta be, you gotta be careful about completely jumping in and believe in that narrative completely.
And maybe you're thinking I've seen her act like a lunatic, but there are other things going on behind the scenes that you might not be seeing. And maybe that's part of the reason why he won't let you bring it up, because he knows that there's parts that you don't know. Just saying I could be completely off base, but this is a super common thing.
So
Lisa says, question. If I'm leaving my marriage and knowing that my stepdaughter will not be left in good hands with with her [00:32:00] father, should I let the birth mother? No, they share custody. This is a good question. Lisa is a hard one though. I think safety trumps what's therapeutic. So most of the time I tell people when it comes to having addicted loved ones not to go around to the other family members and friends and try to convince them that this person has an alcohol problem because it is going to blow up in your face because the person with the problem is going to be absolutely furious to you.
They're going to feel like it's disloyal. However, two things here. You're saying, You're leaving the marriage. So it's already blown up in your face. So you're not blowing up the relationship. It's already blown up. Okay. And if a safety, if you're concerned about the daughter's safety, then yeah, I would do it.
Realize that they're going to be mad at you. They're going to be furious. It might get ugly, but when it comes to safety, especially safety of a child you put that before. So you don't have to tell all the secrets. You don't tell everything, You maybe just tell enough so that your conscious is clear.
Jay says what to do [00:33:00] When you are both heavy drinkers when you met drink together for 18 years And now you have quit or trying to quit and they are still drinking heavily They think it's okay because They work every day, but really it has an effect on the quality of the relationship. This is also a good question right before I answer this, I do want to say thank you, Neon, for the super chat.
I really appreciate that. I just want to make sure I recognize that before I forgot. All right, Jay. So this is definitely a thing, and it's what we were talking about at the beginning. Usually at the beginning of a relationship, both people drink. Maybe you met in college, maybe you drank a lot together.
Maybe you and Neon, when you were dating, you go out bar hopping. Maybe you just drink socially and normally, but at some point, one of those people's drinking backs up and that just normally happens like developmentally based on the age of the person based on the developmental stage of the relationship.
Like it's a normal process for that to happen. If you're saying you both drink heavily and you quit, are you quitting Jay? [00:34:00] Because you're like, I need to quit because I have a problem. Which is great. And that's good. Or are you quitting Jay because you're trying to show this other person something like you're trying to either be a role model or something like that.
It can get really tricky here because the person that's still drinking actually takes, when you don't drink, they consider it like a judgment Oh, you're judging me. And depends on the personality of the person. Sometimes it really just ticks them off. One time I was helping this. Guy was doing some like coaching with this guy whose wife was an alcoholic and and they similarly like They had a lifestyle where you know, they drank with their friends, you know They partied it up like they had a lot of money.
They went and did a lot of fun things Okay And so he's but she's got a really bad drinking problem and i'm probably drinking too much, too and so he decided he was gonna stop drinking mostly because he wanted her to stop drinking and it just would make her Furious and she would literally go into the kitchen and she wasn't trying to [00:35:00] hide it Like she would literally make a drink like as loud as she could she was like take the drink and Clink the glasses together almost like a big ol if you i'm drinking come say something about it, you know Almost like a fight starting thing so If you're drinking because you, if you're not drinking because you want to stop, you feel like it's bad for you, then totally.
I think that's awesome. If you're doing that to, to show an example or something like that to the other person, that's a little iffy and that can be. That can be tough. Just to clarify, I'm asking what I should do. I feel alone and disconnected in my marriage because my, to my husband, the alcohol is my husband's party.
Yeah. I feel like it puts you guys on two separate wavelengths, Jay. If you're sober and the other person's not sober, it's really hard to connect to someone like that. And you, and then. It's easy to fall into this power struggle. I know you're saying, what should I do? I don't know if that means you're asking me, should I stay in the relationship or not?
Or if you're asking me, should I keep drinking or not? I can't tell you whether or not to stay in the relationship. The only thing I can tell you [00:36:00] about what to do is, if you're not drinking and they're still drinking, then let them know that you're not drinking. You're not necessarily judging them for their decision, especially if, four weeks ago you were drinking heavy too.
Cause they're going to be like, Oh, who the heck are you all of a sudden coming in here where you're like better than mentality or something. The more they feel like that's going on, the more they'll like almost be like revenge drinking against you. If you're doing it for a role model reason, then role model with compassion and say, Hey, no, I just think I was drinking too much.
That kind of thing. Kim says such a good topic. If after 10 years, I know it's time to separate, do you have suggestions on how to follow through? I just end up staying and being mad at myself. I don't, I'm wondering what happens to you, Kim, that causes you to stay? It's hard for me to answer the question because is it because the person begs you and says, I'm really sorry, I'm going to stop, and then you stay?
Is it because you just feel terrible? Is it because They're the ones that make all the money. You don't have money to get out. I guess I would need to know a little bit more [00:37:00] about the specifics of the situation, about what's keeping on pulling you back in. But my guess is it's some kind of an emotional pull of some sort.
So you have to gear up to the fact that it's not going to be easy. They're not going to take it well. They're going to see it as abandonment and it doesn't even matter how horrible they've been to you while they have a substance problem. They're going to see you as, I can't believe she abandoned me.
That's the way they're gonna take it. Depends on the personality whether they say that out loud or not, but they're gonna be thinking it.
Julie says, Is it ever appropriate to bring up the sneak drinking? If I mention it, it will appear as if I've been spying. I can't help but notice the extreme intoxication. No need to spy. Yeah, I think sometimes it is appropriate to bring it up But and the reason I say that is because a lot of times i've i've seen a lot of people tell me like my spouse doesn't even know what i'm drinking So it really isn't a problem She just makes a big deal about it But it's not because something bad happens when I drink it's because that she just knows i'm drinking And so if you're not bringing it up, sometimes it gives a [00:38:00] person a false impression that they're managing it Well now that being said, how you bring it up is important.
I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't say, hey, we need to talk and try to sit down and have some kind of big long conversation about it. I would just say, hey and you might even can do, we talk about this in our invisible intervention course. We talk about something called an accusation audit, which is you're on the right track here, Julie, because you're saying, I know he's going to think I've been spying.
You can even start that. I know you're going to think I've been spying. Really haven't, I'm not doing that anymore or whatever. It's just hard to notice, but I notice you're. And you don't have to say sneak drinking, but either if the person supposedly is not drinking and now they are you can say, I can see that you're drinking again.
Just say it casual and move on from it. Don't even you don't even necessarily have to wait to get a response from them. If they want to talk about it, they will and that's fine. But sometimes you just want to drop the bomb on them and let it sink in and let them process it and if you stay there waiting for a response, a lot of times you get lied to and that just makes you really mad or they get [00:39:00] defensive and then they just say ugly things or whatever and then that hurts your feelings.
Just the purpose would just be to say, hey. I just want you to know, I know , you can even say that. Hey, I just want you to know. I know. And then leave it and then just walk away and let the seed sink in there. Robin says, question, what are your thoughts on an alcoholic working with a counselor on managing, drinking and moderation?
My sister thinks she's on the right path. I think she has a new person to lie to. I think I agree on both sides. A lot of times, even when I don't. Even when I know a person is not going to be able to manage their drinking, if this person is very convinced that they can manage their drinking, then I say, okay let's try to manage it.
And then we come up with a treatment goal or something about it. And and that's not because I think I necessarily think that they're going to be successful. It's more because I know that a person has to go through this process. And it's not necessarily me believing everything they're saying.
Most of the time, it's me realizing that we got to check these [00:40:00] bargains or what I call them off the list. So I don't know if there's, I don't know anything about the situation, so I don't know if this counselor is just like totally buying into a bunch of lies, which is completely possible because their narrative is usually pretty slanted.
Most people's narratives are so I agree with both. Probably, if this person feels like they can manage it, they do need to do that and they could also be lying. So yes to both. Layla says question kids have been affected. Loved my husband and want him to get sober. How long do I do the dance?
Six months and he's still not willing to walk away from the double life he has created. He is out of the house. When do I say enough is enough? This is hard and I know you want me to give you a solid answer here, Layla, but I never tell people when to stay or when to go. I never tell people when to kick someone out because I just don't feel like that's For me to say, especially from a [00:41:00] comment on a live video, because I don't know your situation, Lila, so I'd be completely out of bounds to do that.
Plus, I can't make a big decision for you about your life. I can help maybe a little bit in that I do have several videos that talk about the decision to stay or go that maybe gives you a framework. One of the videos, I think on the thumbnail says when to walk away. And that might help give you some things to think about in your decision making which I think is super helpful, but I can't really tell you should you stay or should you go?
That's just a big decision. I don't know enough details about it. And plus that decision impacts you and your family so much.
If you're watching on the playback, thank you so much for being here. If you'd like to show up live, we are live every Thursday at one. And we also release videos every Tuesday morning. All right, everybody, there are resources in the description and I'll see you next time. Bye.
