5 THERAPY LESSONS TO HANDLE DEFENSIVENESS (MUST WATCH) | RECOVERY
===
[00:00:00] Have you ever found yourself in a conversation that just feels stuck? And no matter how many times you try to have this conversation with the person that you're trying to have it with, You just don't get anywhere. In fact, you keep going back to the same old argument because when you're trying to Express your point of view the other person starts to get defensive and then sometimes when people are defensive Then they start trying to call you out on a bunch of stuff because they feel like they're being called out So they start calling you out which makes you defensive and then we get into this Deadlock.
And eventually, once we've run into this wall so many times over a conversation, before it even starts, people come into the conversation defensive because you're thinking, I already know what you're thinking. And so you immediately have your walls up, you have your spikes up and you're just stuck.
This can be so frustrating. You've got to find a way to bypass the defensiveness and Not just [00:01:00] their defensiveness, but your own defensiveness And so you got to figure out how am I going to have this conversation without stepping on any of these landmines?
And today I want to give you A few examples that I've learned over the years of, doing therapy with people that tends to work well. I rarely have people get defensive with me anymore. And in addiction counseling, that's a pretty big feat, I think. Because People will come in to counseling or coaching defensive out the gate because what happens is they are worried that you're going to judge them or they're worried you're going to try to force them into something.
So most people that come to see me, they come in with their defense wall up and it's my job to figure out how to get the defensive wall down as quickly as possible. And so I've learned some techniques that work pretty dang well. And I want to share those with you today so that if you're stuck in one of those conversations where you're just going around and around and you're not getting anywhere and everyone leaves feeling mad and upset that you can get unstuck from that [00:02:00] conversation.
Now I'm going to give you five of them and the first four I'm going to give you have to do with your defensiveness, the number one thing you can do to help get rid of someone else's defensiveness is for you to be very strategic into how you enter the conversation. And then the fifth one, I want to talk to you about what happens if it starts to slide sideways.
Anyway, you've done all those things. You did all the right steps, but the person gets defensive anyway. And then what do you do then? So we'll address that one on the fifth one. This topic applies to any and everybody. Yes, this channel is about addiction and recovery, but we all get defensive.
It is a normal human reaction. Now, some of us are quicker to become defensive. And when people are quicker to become defensive, it probably comes from either a low self esteem or a some kind of [00:03:00] something that happened in childhood. Like for example, if you had a very critical parent, you may have really developed this defensiveness defense mechanism as a way to cope with that.
And maybe as a kid, you couldn't have even said those things out loud to the parent you felt was criticizing you, but you for sure did it in your head. And so If you're one of those people, this is going to be a great video lesson for you.
Or if you're dealing with a person like that is very hypersensitive to criticism, then this is also going to be very helpful for you to understand. The first thing to realize is. It's almost a reflex and I'm not saying that it's okay what people do when they're getting offensive with you.
I'm just saying it happens very quickly. It's usually reflexive and when it happens, it's because our body has, perceived some kind of threat, not a threat necessarily like physically, like I'm going to get physically harmed, but a threat to my esteem, a threat to my [00:04:00] ego, because our brain doesn't really tell the difference between a physical threat and a threat to our self image, right?
It goes into that same biological process. And so once you're in that process, it's very difficult to bring yourself out of it. So the first thing that you can do to help with defensiveness is do not have conversations when you're upset.
If you feel like you're having any of those feelings. Physical or psychological symptoms of defensiveness. That's not the time to have the conversation. Give yourself a little time so you can think very strategically about how you enter the conversation Don't impulsively bring up this topic that you know usually ends in Head butting right power struggle because it's not going to get you anywhere.
You're going to have to really be careful on how you approach it because by the time you've had the argument 20 times. Everybody's super sensitive to it and so we almost stop listening to each other because we assume what [00:05:00] we know the other person is going to say, and so we really have to work through our own stuff.
And you can check in with yourself. If you feel yourself physically tense, like your jaw, your shoulders, your back, your stomach hurts, those are signs that you're not in the state to have the conversation yet. Other signs that you're coming in, in this defensive sort of fight or flight response is that in your head, you're making a list of all the reasons to back up your side of things, all the reasons against whatever their point of view is,
think of it like you're getting your guns, you're putting them in the holster, your grenades, your knife, you're ready to go to war when you're doing this. And Even if you're really good about controlling what you say out loud, if your energy is still bringing that, it's still very likely to hit the other person's button.
So it's not just that you have to say the right things, but you have to have your head and your heart. In the [00:06:00] right place. And one of the best ways to do that is to remind yourself in most cases, this goes for any kind of situation, maybe a family situation or a coworker situation but it's most likely to happen to the people closest to us.
Okay. And so we need to remind ourself that. This is my child. This is my spouse. This is my sister. I love this person. I care for this person. And because of that, I need to take extra care and sensitivity about how I approach this and get yourself out of that going to war mindset because that's not going to get you anywhere.
You've already tried that 50 times and it's not working already and it's not going to get them to hear what you have to say. On this channel, we talk a lot about how to get through to people in denial and denial is basically just a defense mechanism. And the way you get through to someone in denial is you just learn how to not trip that defense mechanism.
You learn how to not step on that landmine and then a person naturally starts to come out [00:07:00] of denial. So you're going to wait till you're physiologically in a good place. And then you're also going to wait until you thought about things From their point of view and not in the kind of way where you're, in your own mind, you're like slamming down all of their rationalizations or whatever it is, but in a good heartfelt place of, Hey, even if I don't agree with this person's point of view, and even if I don't agree with the behavior, most of the time.
they're coming from some kind of not necessarily evil point of view, which actually brings me to our next technique for how to avoid defensiveness, which is assume positive intentions. What typically happens when someone says something that hurts us or behaves in a way that we're not okay with or whatever we, because we're defensive, we automatically go in our head and we assume they're doing it because they're Evil, right?
And when we put this automatic they're selfish. They're just trying to hurt me. They don't [00:08:00] care about anyone but themselves. They don't care about my needs. And we go into this sort of, Villainizing Narrative in our head and I promise you if you've got that narrative going on You're gonna come in defensive.
Even if you say all the right things your energy is gonna be like pumping out criticism and judgment and Condemnation it's not gonna be good. So you can ask yourself. What would be some of the reasons this person might be doing this because It's In my line of work people come in my office and they basically they come usually their biggest frustration is other people in their life Whether it's their family member their parent their spouse their boss, whatever And so they come in and they start telling me what this other person is doing And it's almost like a reflex for me at this point.
I just automatically start thinking about All the reasons why that behavior from that other person could be happening and that's assuming that the behavior is actually happening You [00:09:00] know, that's a big Leap right there, but let's say it is happening. Then I go in my head and I start to figure out why, what are reasons why this could be happening.
Maybe your loved one doesn't listen to you very well, not because they're selfish and they don't care about you, but because they have a history of something happening in their childhood and they're just responding to something that happened, 30 years ago or whatever and so that doesn't mean it's okay but when we assign this sort of either personal or evil Intention behind it we go in Angry, it's just going to make you immediately angry and defensive so assume the positive right where are they?
Where are they coming from? Not the evil narrative version and you probably know that but you probably have to like You Be super mindful and actually stop and ask yourself these questions and when you can do that then you can actually go in with my third technique. You see how these things build on each other It's one then the other so when you go in with the third technique, and I [00:10:00] love this one Okay, I don't think i've talked to you guys about this one before And i'm not even sure it's an invisible intervention.
I should put it in there if it's not The this one is what I call Defend you defend them first, right? Think go in and think about all their points of view and say it first now It's very similar to the one that I call that the accusations audit which is like where you Think about all the negative things they're going to say against you and you say at first like for example If you think that they're going to think oh my gosh, she's such a bitch then you can say this can be totally bitchy That's a version of it.
But this is not necessarily something they're thinking against you, but something they're thinking to defend their thought process, behavior, actions, or whatever. And you say it you defend them first because if you come in and you defend this positive intention where they're coming from It's not saying you agree It's just saying hey, I hear you.
I get it like maybe you're trying to have a conversation with your husband who you think drinks too much you ask [00:11:00] yourself if he were if I could get inside his head and I could see what he was thinking it'd probably be something like, look, I'm stressed out.
Things are really hard at work right now. There's nothing wrong with having a beer to calm your nerves after work. It helps me sleep. It shouldn't be too hard to figure this out. And if you go in from that point of view, and you can say, look, I know that things are super stressful at work right now, and you need a way to relax, that's what I mean when I say you defend them first, because it makes them feel like they don't need to pick up their weapons, right?
They don't, they can unholster the gun. They can set the grenades and the knives and everything down because it immediately makes this person feel like, Hey, I get it. Or another way you can do this is you can, and I do this in coaching a lot, is just to normalize what's going on. So it's a way of saying, hey, it happens to the best of us, or it happens to a lot of people, or it's happened to me before.
Because then it, what it does is it says, I'm not judging you. When you can normalize something it takes the judgment off [00:12:00] and there's nothing that's going to get a person Defensive quicker than feeling criticized or judged. That's what makes us want to Tell this other person why we're doing it that way or why we feel the way we feel Because whether they are or not We feel judged and criticized.
And so when you normalize it, when you defend them first, they don't feel like they have to defend themselves because they don't feel like they're in danger. So it's a way of getting someone to put their weapons down. It's very similar. You're doing that same thing.
You're just doing it on a psychological level as in I'm not coming in here to hurt you, to force you, to criticize you, to make you do anything. Then people, they don't need their weapons and they will usually put them down. Now, if you're dealing with someone who has a history of trauma or has a history of being overly criticized as a young person or who's just really shameful, About their own behavior
I should say especially [00:13:00] when we know we're in the wrong, right? It could be the person knows they're doing something wrong. And so that's why they're always Defensive when you come at them, which is another reason why if you normalize it, if you understand why even if you don't agree with the behavior, why it could be happening, then it also helps to get around that shame button, which helps the conversation to go much better.
Now, this next technique. What you want to do with this next technique is humble yourself in the conversation. You want to take yourself off the high horse and you want to do that psychologically, like in your own head, like you, you want to take yourself off the high horse, and you want to be able to verbalize it to this person.
You want to be able to say, Hey, I know I'm not perfect or hey, I know I'm contributing to the problem. XYZ name, the thing, say the things, give them examples because when you can do that, then it's like, Hey, I'm making myself vulnerable. It is. It's the same thing as. Laying the gun down. I'm not a threat.
Because you're making yourself [00:14:00] vulnerable. It allows another person to take their armor down too. Humble yourself into the conversation. Admit your own flaws. And the more specific you can be about it, the better. The better because the more specific you can be about it the more genuine it sounds
okay to say i'm not perfect either I think that's good like that works, but it works better if you can say specifically what you know You bring into the dynamic that's problematic for that person. That's really gonna make them feel heard Or like I said before if you say hey, I've made that same mistake before, I did that I still do that, then Again, it's going to make the person feel safer, which is going to reduce the criticism.
So as you can see, almost all of these techniques has to do with, try not to hit the button in the first place, because that's your best bet. Because once you step on the landmine, it's hard to close the gate back on that. It just goes into autopilot from there a lot of times. So whatever you do, try your best [00:15:00] not To make the person feel defensive.
Okay now sometimes no matter how hard you try They're just going to be defensive and it's probably because they know they're in the wrong And they feel like guilty about it like a lot and so because they feel guilty about it and so they have this little narrative going on all the time where they're constantly defending themselves to themself as a way to, Feel better about whatever's going on I wouldn't drink so much if she wasn't blah blah blah blah blah Whatever it is.
It's if he listened to how I felt I probably wouldn't need to go smoke in the garage or whatever, and so It could have to do with their own conversations they're having with themselves more than What's going on with you and how you're entering it. Some people are more verbal about it. If someone starts to get loud or someone starts to criticize you or name call you or say, you're just like your mama or something like that. It's pretty obvious that you've gotten them [00:16:00] into the defensive zone. But there are other signs that are a little bit more subtle that I want you to pay attention to because some people are very conflict avoidant.
So they may not, do the gaslighting or criticize you or yell at you or do anything outwardly, but you can watch them shut down. You can watch their body language change. You can see little subtle arrows or little things. Passive aggressive comments or something like that. And if you notice those signs.
You need to realize that you have stepped on the button and you need to take action I can't tell you how many times I watch people have conversations And clearly the one person has stopped listening and is defensive But the other person is so gung ho i'm getting their point across They just keep going and just stepping in it and stepping in it it's oh gosh It's terrible to watch and so if you notice that either you have gotten defensive or the other person has gotten defensive, you need to time out the situation.
If it's you, [00:17:00] then I want you to say something along the lines of, Hey, this is a super important conversation. I'm actually glad we're talking about it because we've needed to talk about this for a while. We need to work this out, but I feel myself. I'm getting super anxious.
And so I'm, not sure i'm hearing you as clearly as I need to hear you because it's really important Can we come back and talk about this at whatever o'clock set a time? That you're going to come back and then go back and talk about it then but give yourself time to reign it in, or Just to think strategically because sometimes in the heat of the moment is hard to think very strategically About all these things you might need to go back to this video and look at your notes or something if the other person is getting defensive then what I want you to do is I want you to bring up their defensiveness now, hold up, I don't want you to bring it up like In a criticizing way.
I don't want you to say you never listen. You just get defensive and here you go again That's not helpful. Don't do that I want you to say hey It [00:18:00] looks like maybe something i'm doing or saying is making you feel criticized is maybe Upsetting you is making you feel defensive and I don't want to make you feel that way because we really are on the same team here And I know we can work this out sometimes just saying that You Will bring the wall down enough that you can continue the conversation
hey, would you like to take a break from this conversation or whatever? And you're just acknowledging what you're seeing, but you're not doing it in a bad way Don't say you're doing that thing again. You always do that you never let me finish what i'm saying Don't That's not what I mean when I say bring it up.
I'm saying bring up maybe the feeling that the other person is having and validate the feeling that the other person is having and either offer a solution or you can say, you can even ask the person, is there something I can do to make this conversation go better, to make you not feel criticized or whatever?
You can just ask them sometimes and they'll [00:19:00] tell you. But don't keep The conversation going when it's already went off the rails because only thing that's going to happen Is you're going to say a bunch of more mean stuff to each other that once you say you can't take it back
if you struggle with anger, you might struggle with this. Say really mean things like Way below the belt, like out of bounds, that's like foul. Once you say things, something, it's out there, and it can't be taken back.
And words hurt. You know that saying, like when you're a kid Sticks and stones I write around my arms, but words will never hurt me? That's not true. Words hurt. Okay, and when you let someone know that you have this very negative thought about them, it's gonna be really hard to get that person to trust you.
Because now they know what you think. What are some things that you guys consider out of bounds, below the belt, no go zones, like foul zones, and like an argument? There's like [00:20:00] name calling. There's and this one comes up a lot. There's like diagnosing the other person, like psychologically.
You're just doing this because you're an addict. You're doing this because you're a borderline. You're doing this because Whatever you have OCD and you start throwing out the diagnosis on them that even if you're right It's not going to go well because again, what we're trying to do is you're trying to bypass Making this person feel criticized and judged and the reason why you need to do that Is because if you make them feel that way They're going to do something to make you feel that way.
They're going to get you back one way or the other. Even if that's just shut down and refuse to talk to you, they're going to get you. So it's not going to get you anywhere. I think sometimes it's like excessive Cursing, not cursing is in like bad words, but like cursing at someone you're such a blah, blah, blah, like in the name calling that's where it really crosses the line.
I'm telling somebody that they're just like somebody that, this person hates. They're just like their mama. They're just like their brother. They're just like their uncle, whatever. And that's a sore spot for [00:21:00] them. It's out of bounds. Don't. Do that. It's not productive and I don't care how mad and angry you are.
It's not Warranted and it's out of bounds and then when you know somebody really all have little sensitive sore spots that maybe are not sore spots for anyone like those ones I just named they're sore spots for anyone but everybody has their own little unique buttons And when you know someone really well, you know what those buttons are and you know where the no goes on is If you find yourself wanting to say those words You're way too defensive to have this conversation.
So you need to do the by myself time method. Let's come back to the conversation, right? Because you're just creating more and more wall and you need to trust each other to resolve the issue. Both people have to lay down Their weapons down and you are most certainly not going to do that by firing shots over the line.
Okay. All right we are about to the point in our live video those of you that are here with us live Thank you for showing up. You guys are awesome And I tell [00:22:00] you what y'all ask harder and harder questions. Sometimes i'm like man. These people are so smart and y'all just Sometimes y'all will I can tell you've watched the videos because you'll say, I'm out of the bag everywhere.
You're like, you use all my same language. I'm like, dang, they're like advanced. I don't put them in the advanced placement course. So let's get some questions for you guys in the meantime. As always, there are more resources in the description. We have a page on our website, which is nothing but free downloadable resources.
There's like a treatment options guide, how to do drug screens How to make someone feel supported and loved like nice things you can say to people sometimes you need a list Especially when you're upset sometimes you're like, maybe you need a cheat sheet All those things are on that page and you can get to it.
There's also if you want to work with myself or one of our family coaches on our team all that's in there and then if your Situation is that you need to talk to a loved one about addiction and that's the defensive wall that you're running up against then you want to look at the invisible intervention [00:23:00] because it's like a whole course on How to get through that specific defense mechanism It goes much in a lot Further detail than what we did today in this video.
Tara says is it okay to ask Husband who's in the fourth relapse in about five months of meth What his plan for recovery is?
Terry, You know your husband best so you know if it's going to make him defensive or not. What I typically see with this question is it doesn't really necessarily make people angry. Although it can But mostly they just don't know how to answer it and like I have a few clients who like literally every time they mess up They want to know their spouse wants to know the plan and then they come to my office and they're like They want a plan or whatever if they don't know the plan Then they might just say something defensive or they may just say I don't have a plan I don't care what i'm doing is fine Or they could feel like they have to come up with a plan and then they tell you a bunch of [00:24:00] stuff that's just lip service and then they don't intend to do it.
I think what might work better is to ask them a question that Gets them to think something more in the positive direction, something like, Hey, I know you're struggling right now, but you did really good. Name the time, what was going on then? What worked for you? Because when you get them to say what worked for them.
Then you're getting them to think about their plan, right? Rather than just asking them what their plan is, because, and a lot of it depends on tone, right? Like the tone, what's your plan this time? You said that last time. If that's the way you ask it, it's definitely not going to go well. So tone matters, but ask the question that gets them to come up with, ask them, Hey remember when you were talking to Campbell and you really liked her?
Do you think that would be helpful for you again? Ask them a question that makes them think in that direction rather than putting them on the spot. The great question. Dale says my 15 year old daughter hates her alcoholic mom and treats her accordingly. My wife. [00:25:00] is too defensive to discuss the reasons and can't understand the anger.
She blames me for not pushing our daughter to make her stop. How can I discuss this co parent situation? Is tough. And so you get caught in the middle basically is what you're saying Dale, which Can totally happen. So it's not necessarily you're defensive. It's like you're dealing with some, your wife is defensive against your daughter.
Who's defensive against her mother. So the way I would have that conversation with your wife is to, you go in and defend her first. You see her side of the situation, get her to put her weapons down. And that is the, probably your best chance at getting her to get some of those walls down so y'all can have a conversation about it.
You could say, Hey, I know that a lot of times, it's unfair. She's jumping to a conclusion or something like that. Help your wife feel seen.
Ask yourself, What is the list of rationalizations and justifications and excuses that your wife has in her head? Now pick a few that you can agree with or get [00:26:00] on board with. You don't have to pick any of the ones that are just like ridiculous. Pick a couple that you see where they're coming from and say, Hey, I know like this and see their point of view and then they'll put their weapons down.
You can have a better conversation. Crystal, my husband, an active meth addict. Addict left in January for another woman. I was in the bad guy role. He comes by and tells me all their drama Even though I have not asked him. How do I handle this? So this is a good boundaries question
he has said that i'm the only person he can talk to I want to not be in the bad guy role. As he goes back and forth wanting to work things out. This is interesting, Crystal, because in some ways this has got to be validating, right? It's oh, I was the bad guy. When you were the bad guy, you went to this other person and said all the bad things about you.
I guarantee it. And now it's reversed. So what I need you to remember, and you probably already know this, is now that person's in the bad guy role. And then they're coming to you to complain about that person. So first you [00:27:00] just, and I think you already figured this out, is don't fall into that splitting, because you've been on the other side of that, but you can set a limit and a boundary on this without being a bad guy, right?
You can just say, hey, I know sometimes you need someone to talk to, but this conversation, when you're talking to me about the stuff that goes on with you guys, it's like a sensitive area for me, and it should not be a surprise that would be a sensitive area for you. And there should not be a like I can't believe that.
It should be obvious, right? So just say, I'm not sure I'm the best one to talk to you about this particular thing because it brings a resentment or brings up a bunch of old stuff. And then I have a hard time really listening to you anyway, because now I'm all triggered or whatever.
Say it. And it's the tone you say it in that matters the most. But you can definitely set that boundary. It does not make you the bad guy.
Wookiee Talk says, how do I ask my wife to use a breathalyzer without her getting defensive? You just want, Wookiee Talk, you just want to be like the ninja like Jedi version now. Okay, this is a good question. I can tell you how [00:28:00] I talk to people about using the breathalyzer. And usually when I talk to people it's, I'm talking to them about maybe doing soberlink, which y'all know I'm a big fan of.
I love Soberlink. It is the breathalyzer that I would recommend, and lemme just say this to you first and then I'm gonna answer your question, if you're thinking about just getting a breathalyzer, like you can buy them anywhere, Amazon, whatever, you can buy 'em, my Office Depot, , and you just wanna do it at home, it's gonna put you in the position to have to ask her to take the breathalyzer.
So the first thing you want to do is you want to get out of having To ask it like all the time because it's gonna feel like an accusation every time you ask it So that's why I'm so strongly in favor of a system like sober link Which you have the conversation wants I'm going to tell you how to have it.
You have the conversation once, and you get agreement, and then that system runs itself. So when they get a text message, it says, hey, it's time for your test. It's not you sending it as an accusation. Whereas if you're doing it at home, and they come home, and [00:29:00] maybe they're late coming home from work, and then you say, hey, could you take your breathalyzer, they're going to be defensive.
The first thing to do is to put it on a system. Now, how do you talk them into agreeing to do something like that? The way I do that with clients is I help them to understand how it would benefit them, right? So one of the things I explain to my clients, is I say it's going to make being sober a lot easier for you, like a lot easier because you're not going to have to do that back and forth in your head all day long.
You don't have to like, should I, shouldn't I? Like the coast is clear. My husband's gone. Maybe I can drink just one. And then because you know that you're not going to get away with it. So it like eliminates that sneaky voice or at least turns that sneaky voice volume like way down, which actually, Makes life a lot easier for you because you don't have to have that argument with yourself all the time.
And then the other thing I tell them, which is also very true is, and plus, it's gonna get your spouse off your back. Because they won't be smell checking you anymore. They won't be [00:30:00] accusing you anymore. You won't have to have these awkward conversations. You, they won't feel like they need to like, Babysit you or not let you go anywhere without them or anything like that.
So anytime you're gonna sell something you do it to what need did they have that it would solve? So that's how you have the conversation and like I said before Get something that's a system so a sober link if you guys want to know more about sober link I'll put the link I think it's Soberlink.
com backslash amber. I made a video for you guys like showing the whole thing like how it works and everything So you can see the behind the scenes Great question. Married a long time says trying to get him to discuss the next steps in our divorce He's shutting down and started to drink heavier.
Decisions need to be made. Is there more to that one Breer? So basically what you're saying is how do I have the conversation with him? You probably know What part of it he's defensive about, right? And so you want to address that up front. You can even say, hey, I know this conversation is really [00:31:00] uncomfortable, but we need to have it and we don't have to talk about it very long or, I'm going to make this, we can make this as minimally uncomfortable as we possibly can.
So acknowledging that it is difficult, acknowledging their point of view, acknowledging why maybe they aren't ready to have that. It helps when you can see their point of view and you can acknowledge it, it's going to help. But the other thing though is if he's that far into drinking, it's going to be hard to find a time to have the conversation because if someone is intoxicated, They don't have their good critical thinking brain in working order, and so it's going to be very difficult to have it without making them be defensive, and then plus, they may not remember it if you try to have it then.
Part of the situation for you is when to have it. Sometimes in a situation like this, you have to catch the person like, in the morning time or something. You definitely don't want to do it late in the evening because that's usually prime drinking time. So it's about timing and it's about tone and it's about the way you enter the [00:32:00] conversation.
And don't say, Hey, we need to talk about the divorce stuff. If there's a specific thing that y'all need to work out, you can say, Hey, what do you think about blah, blah, blah. Say the specific thing or say, Hey, I was thinking this might be a good way to do it.
Don't say we need to have a talk. Don't say we got to work because when you frame it like that, you feel like you're giving them time to prep. But what you're doing is you're giving them time to get defensive. out the gate and to get freaked out and nervous about it and shut down.
Canine Peace of Mind says, My partner is avoidant and shuts down or just agrees. He's in denial level four alcoholic functional. See, Bree earlier when I said these people are getting smarter and smarter. Look at that. They're like this, level four this. I'm like, dang, y'all are good.
Alright, I've asked him not to vape in the house. He said, okay, and then vapes next to me two days later. That's just an example, but anything like, Asking him to clean up after himself. He won't do I do all [00:33:00] the household chores dogs and outdoor yard work and In over an acre wooded property. He plays video games.
The issue is he's so avoided and defensive I've gotten to the point where I don't bring it up anymore because he either shuts down Or gets defensive even when it's about my feelings or need for help because in his mind, it's oh, here we go again I'm in trouble again or whatever.
You and when it's about your feelings that's like treacherous territory that they don't want to feel the emotions or whatever. So it's probably particularly prone to shutting down in those situations. This is really more of a boundary question. The first thing you need to ask is this a, how does Kim say it?
Kim says it good. Is this a boundary or is this a request? The vaping thing, I think, is going to be more of a request than a boundary. You could make it into a boundary, but remember, boundaries are about you, not about them. And you're trying to set these boundaries, but you're trying to tell [00:34:00] him what to do.
And that's why the boundary doesn't work, because you don't really have a way of backing it up. What it's his house too. So if you say you can't vape in the house, and this is a grown man I think you said this was your spouse, right? This is a grown person like to tell them they can't do something in their house And I don't care if you pay all the bills you might be thinking that because you might be defensive listening to me but it just doesn't work that way.
So first thing is I wouldn't frame it boundary. I would frame it request You And when you frame it in your own mind that way it helps you to frame the conversation. Hey, it would be really helpful if, hey, it's so great when Blank and so if you phrase it that way more in the positive instead of and I don't know that you're doing this I'm making this up right because you didn't say this.
I'm just literally like throwing this in there But if you're saying hey I'm sick of doing everything around here and all you do is sit on your butt and play the video games then of course, they're gonna be offensive even if you say hey, [00:35:00] like I need you to start blah blah blah blah blah and you're throwing the you out there and That's going to make them defensive.
But if you say it's really helpful, I would really appreciate it. If you come in and the tone matters and you come at it from a positive way, the person is more likely to do it. The other thing I want to say about this question and this, you didn't really ask this, but I think it's important in the situation is the not vaping in the house thing.
I get it. Like I'm a non, Smoker, I wouldn't want it in my house either necessarily but It's like a lot of people want to set the rule with someone who's an addict or an alcoholic of not having the Substance in the house And i'm like you're just lying to yourself if someone has an addict or alcoholic they have it in the house There's no way around it period end of story so you're asking them to do something that darn they're not gonna You Be consistently comply with and then what are you going to do about it?
And what happens is you end up with only one card to play and that's either i'm leaving or you're leaving and so once you get down to only [00:36:00] that one card to play It's what are you going to do throw it out there because they didn't pick up the laundry one time because it's going to seem like all you have is the one weapon and it's like A bomb and it's so you just throw in the bomb as far as boundary.
So realize it. What can you back up and not back up? That's only about you what you will or won't do like I will or won't do Your laundry or whatever you can set it that way, but it's about setting limits for yourself Not necessarily setting limits for them. It's frustrating. I know Rita says, My daughter didn't follow the program to stay in my place and we changed the lock.
She is blaming me beyond reason. As you said, it sucks if you let them stay and it sucks if you let them leave. It puts you in the no win bad guy situation. Ugh. Do I lay it out for her? Why she got herself locked out? I'm losing sleep on this.
You're feeling defensive because you feel like she's blaming you, which she [00:37:00] probably is. Reid has been around on our lives for a while now, which is making you feel defensive, which is making you feel like you need to explain your side of the situation.
You don't. It's only going to make her more defensive. It's only going to throw gasoline on it and escalate the situation even further. She knows exactly what's up. It's really just trying to fish hook you into, engaging in this back and forth defensive conversation. You need to know in your heart that you did what you could do, that you followed the guidelines and she didn't, and you just have to be okay about it.
Because you're setting a boundary and she doesn't like the boundary. Sometimes we do the thing, we set the boundary, and we want them to not just follow the boundary, but be happy about the boundary. And now we're asking too much. And so that's where you're at.
Career coach, Pauline says my high functioning alcoholic husband or addicted husband is in denial and self bargaining. Recently he compared my love of eating rice to an addiction. I didn't get defensive and just [00:38:00] said, I don't eat other sugars. And I'm not worried about the health impact. Any suggestions on how I can use this if he brings this up again?
Maybe he wanted to talk about addiction. He doesn't talk a lot at all. Okay. I like this. I really like this question. The first thing I would say is even if you didn't get like a defensive tone, you still got defensive because you're defending yourself, right? And like I said, it's natural. We all do it.
Even if we don't say it, we think it so I'm not judging like I do it too. So you did get somewhat defensive. And so there's probably some grain of truth in there. There's probably it's not the same, but there's probably some. And I would find what that is for you, and I would agree with it because actually, when you do that, you're doing two things at once.
Number one, you're entering the conversation on defensively. You can say, yeah, it is like that. I love that race. That's my 1 thing, but man, I love it. Whatever it is, [00:39:00] acknowledge it because it's going to make the person feel non defensive and bonus. You're also normalizing it.
I think normalizing it allows someone to feel less criticized or judged about their addictive behavior. And their walls come down and they talk about it. I made someone come to me like, dude, we all got some kind of addiction. And then they're like, I know, right? I probably got five myself.
And then I'll start naming them or something. And I know it's not the same. And I'm not saying all addictions are created equal. But there is some similarity in there that you can relate to. He's probably saying that to you from a defensive standpoint, but you don't have to respond offensively back like you can take his comment and you can agree with them.
Great question. Melly says, I have been able to have open and honest conversations with my addicted loved one now. He says he is going to reduce drinking and I can see it. Won't fully quit though. Is that something that can happen? Very good question, Mellie.
You [00:40:00] are on the right YouTube channel for that question. That's what we talk about here. If your person has a real alcohol use disorder, like a real problem with alcohol, they will not consistently keep it managed. That's just the honest truth. I've been doing this for years and it just doesn't work.
However, it is important to let them figure that out. Okay, so I need you to know that probably it's not going to work, but I don't want you to say that to him because the only way for someone to figure out that they have to quit it totally is to try to back it down and it usually, Mellie, like several times.
So if this is your first round of that, Just prepare yourself and instead of being frustrated, you can be like, good check round one, good check round two. That's what I try to do. You can't stop this from happening, but you can speed it up. Is it going to work? It may work for a very short period of time, but it's not going to work.
long and it's going to keep going back. But align with him, let him try that because that's the only [00:41:00] way to get to, I need to stop. You got to go, you got to walk through that part. So it's actually a good sign. It means we're in the phases. Dawn says, I'm a healthy, active person who sees my spouse deteriorate from drinking.
I feel my lifestyle upsets him and he's unable to participate anymore since his disease has progressed. What can I do? You can address it outright. You know your loved one the best. You know what their buttons are and what you can bring up and what you can't. But you can just ask the question, hey does it bother you that, just bring it to the surface in like a curious way, in a calm way, in a way that's not an attacking way.
So that, He can become aware of it because he could be feeling that way and not even quite realize Bring see if you can gently bring it to the surface is what I would say All right. We are out of time for questions today.
You guys were awesome as usual. There are resources in the description. Before I forget we won't be on here next thursday except this week because Or this coming week because it's thanksgiving, but we'll [00:42:00] be right back on the following thursday right back on schedule as always and I have a special guest planned for you That you're really I think you're really going to like he's an enneagram specialist And some of you know that i'm a big enneagram fan.
I haven't talked about it a long time It's like personality types. And so what we're going to talk about is how to understand yourself or your loved one It's addiction through their Specific frame, right? Because everybody's a little different. And that means how do I approach, how do I make an approach to this person that's specific to their personality?
So you guys don't want to miss him. It's Dr. Tim LaHue. He's got his own YouTube channel. He's going to be with us on I think Thursday, the December 5th. All right. See you guys soon. Bye everybody.
